Derya pump and bolt action 9mm pcc

[762mm]

Held a 16" synthetic stock version at SFRC - really wasn't all that impressed for the price.

It didn't feel as toy-like as a GSG-16, but didn't feel nearly as good as a TM22 Pro, which typically retails for at least $100 cheaper.

As previously mentioned, no slide release button. You basically just force the slide back and forth with brute strength. If it did loosen up with time / use, I'd be slightly concerned about OOB detonation...

How much "brute strength" are we talking about and would adding something like a Magpul RVG forward grip help?

Pump action firearms have existed for over 100 years. Most Remington 870's / Mossberg 500's can cycle as smooth as butter. It's not exactly rocket science to make a pump gun work smooth and easy.

I'm not certain to understand why this gun would be different or how that supposed "spring assist" works? Also, there's literally ZERO information or videos on these on the interzones.

.

 

[Can-down]

Held a 16" synthetic stock version at SFRC - really wasn't all that impressed for the price.

It didn't feel as toy-like as a GSG-16, but didn't feel nearly as good as a TM22 Pro, which typically retails for at least $100 cheaper.

As previously mentioned, no slide release button. You basically just force the slide back and forth with brute strength. If it did loosen up with time / use, I'd be slightly concerned about OOB detonation...

Do you really need to use the same brute forth in both directions?

The bolt action is starting to look like a better option.

 

[G Rank]

Waiting for a 12" bolty 9x19mm to show up, that would be great for popping squirrels amazingly lol

 

[mmattockx]

As previously mentioned, no slide release button. You basically just force the slide back and forth with brute strength. If it did loosen up with time / use, I'd be slightly concerned about OOB detonation...

Is it a locked breech design or is it unlocked and relying on the spring and whatever resistance in the system to keep the breech closed? There is no reason for needing brute force in a locked breech design.

Pump action firearms have existed for over 100 years. Most Remington 870's / Mossberg 500's can cycle as smooth as butter. It's not exactly rocket science to make a pump gun work smooth and easy.

Depends on the action. I agree very little force is required with a locking breech, but if it's essentially a blowback action relying on spring force and mass to keep it in battery then you might need a lot of force to operate it. Sounds awful at this point.


Mark

 

[762mm]

Is it a locked breech design or is it unlocked and relying on the spring and whatever resistance in the system to keep the breech closed? There is no reason for needing brute force in a locked breech design.


Depends on the action. I agree very little force is required with a locking breech, but if it's essentially a blowback action relying on spring force and mass to keep it in battery then you might need a lot of force to operate it. Sounds awful at this point.


Mark

I agree. Now I'm having regrets of perhaps "pulling the trigger" on one of them too soon, lol! It's usually a bad idea to be one of the first adopters of a new product or model, because you become the manufacturer's guinea pig.

That being said, I can see how a simple blowback with a spring assist could be cycled very fast while shooting. The fired round would recoil the bolt and provide the initial inertia to cycle it fully by hand, if your timing is right. Paul Harrell called it "pull-rack".

Also if this setup is indeed the way this firearm works, then in theory a lighter action spring and a forend disconnect would make it go SA with proper ammo....


See "pull-rack" technique at 6:18 time stamp :

 

[Variable81]

How much "brute strength" are we talking about and would adding something like a Magpul RVG forward grip help?

Pump action firearms have existed for over 100 years. Most Remington 870's / Mossberg 500's can cycle as smooth as butter. It's not exactly rocket science to make a pump gun work smooth and easy.

I'm not certain to understand why this gun would be different or how that supposed "spring assist" works? Also, there's literally ZERO information or videos on these on the interzones.

.

"Brute strength" may have been an exaggeration on my part - it's not so much that it's hard to cycle, it's that it's not smooth like any shotgun I've ever picked up (certainly no spring assist either), and the effort required to cycle it in either direction is higher than I would have expected.

 

[Variable81]

Do you really need to use the same brute forth in both directions?

The bolt action is starting to look like a better option.

Yes, it felt as if I was applying the same (or at least very close to the same) amount of force in either direction to cycle the firearm.

Ar this point, I'm also hoping to get my hands on a bolt version to see how it compares.

 

[Variable81]

Is it a locked breech design or is it unlocked and relying on the spring and whatever resistance in the system to keep the breech closed? There is no reason for needing brute force in a locked breech design.


Depends on the action. I agree very little force is required with a locking breech, but if it's essentially a blowback action relying on spring force and mass to keep it in battery then you might need a lot of force to operate it. Sounds awful at this point.


Mark

Wish I could provide a more definitive answer to your question, but I'll have to abstain, as I don't want to give the wrong answer and muddy the waters any further than I already have.

All I can say is that the cycling action was very short / abrupt, it felt like an equal amount of force applied in either direction, it wasn't very smooth, and it didn't feel like there was anything holding / locking the bolt in place.

Can't remember if I mentioned it or not in my original post, but the mag release is a long lever/button design. It's located right where I like to keep my finger resting against the receiver of a firearm when I'm trying to practice good trigger discipline. At one point, when I was inserting an empty magazine, I was resting my finger on said lever/button hard enough to actuate it, which allowed the magazine to be over-inserted, preventing me from fully cycling the pump action. Perhaps this is something witnessed on other PCC's, but I've never held a PCC where I rested my finger on the mag release firmly enough to discover that I could over-insert the magazine in the first place.

Again, my overall impression was that I was not impressed given the price being asked for this firearm. Perhaps if one owned one of these and took the time to learn/adapt to all its little quirks, it might be a reliable little pump gun in a calibre that got hit hard by the OIC & handgun bans... but for me, it just didn't feel very intuitive / high-quality / confidence-inspiring when I handled it.

Hopefully someone like BATS on YouTube will get his hands on one and do a more in-depth review.

 

[762mm]

Tenda is now sold out also, fellas and fellettes...

There were 5 in stock about 12 hours ago. They seem to sell out fast everywhere.

Hopefully that means more stock coming in and more similar SBR designs for the future!

 

[Can-down]

Yes, it felt as if I was applying the same (or at least very close to the same) amount of force in either direction to cycle the firearm.

Ar this point, I'm also hoping to get my hands on a bolt version to see how it compares.

Sounds like there is some sort of mechanical lockup and not just a spring.
The reviews and feedback will no doubt be coming in fast!

Thanks for sharing your insight.

 

[jjohnwm]

Sounds like there is some sort of mechanical lockup and not just a spring.
The reviews and feedback will no doubt be coming in fast!

Thanks for sharing your insight.

This is confusing; if you need to exert the same force in both directions, despite the assistance of a blow-back-like effect at the moment of firing the shot, then that does sort of imply that you are overcoming some sort of lock. Otherwise, pumping backward would be much slicker and lighter than the forward motion...or no? And if there were no lock of any kind, would you not be required to maintain some forward pressure on the pump handle after chambering a round but before pulling the trigger? Or...no?

The whole idea of the "pullrack" as described in that video was being treated as though it were a revolutionary new thing. Huh? I'd say that absolutely every shooter who has ever spent any amount of time with a pumpgun...rifle or shotgun...does that automatically, no thinking or discovery required.

I've wanted a bolt 9mm forever, but had almost talked myself into ordering the pump version of this gun...but now I'm rethinking that and leaning back towards a bolt. If I hadn't read this thread, I never would have suspected that the pumping cycle and locking method here was in any way different from my old 870's and other pumpguns. I can't help but think that a lot of shooters will buy and are buying this gun without benefit of reading discussions like this one. I suspect there will be an awful lot of WTF? moments when those boxes start to arrive and the happy new owners start to coonfinger their new toys.

 

[Can-down]

This is confusing; if you need to exert the same force in both directions, despite the assistance of a blow-back-like effect at the moment of firing the shot, then that does sort of imply that you are overcoming some sort of lock. Otherwise, pumping backward would be much slicker and lighter than the forward motion...or no? And if there were no lock of any kind, would you not be required to maintain some forward pressure on the pump handle after chambering a round but before pulling the trigger? Or...no?

The whole idea of the "pullrack" as described in that video was being treated as though it were a revolutionary new thing. Huh? I'd say that absolutely every shooter who has ever spent any amount of time with a pumpgun...rifle or shotgun...does that automatically, no thinking or discovery required.

I've wanted a bolt 9mm forever, but had almost talked myself into ordering the pump version of this gun...but now I'm rethinking that and leaning back towards a bolt. If I hadn't read this thread, I never would have suspected that the pumping cycle and locking method here was in any way different from my old 870's and other pumpguns. I can't help but think that a lot of shooters will buy and are buying this gun without benefit of reading discussions like this one. I suspect there will be an awful lot of WTF? moments when those boxes start to arrive and the happy new owners start to coonfinger their new toys.

Adriel the Hunting Gear Guy is about the only content I've seen online from shotshow with a short look at the bolt action 9mm, the pump wasn't even on the wall by the looks of it at shot show and yet it's showed up in advance of the bolt for some reason?

In this second clip Adriel shows the .22lr pump action model that also does not lock up in the traditional sense with an action release if the action is to be unlocked without pulling the trigger. There must be some sort of locking lug that is pushed up and down by the pump action.

Here he is with the bolt action, it looks like a rep was not really around to answer questions when he was there...

 

[762mm]

This is confusing; if you need to exert the same force in both directions, despite the assistance of a blow-back-like effect at the moment of firing the shot, then that does sort of imply that you are overcoming some sort of lock. Otherwise, pumping backward would be much slicker and lighter than the forward motion...or no? And if there were no lock of any kind, would you not be required to maintain some forward pressure on the pump handle after chambering a round but before pulling the trigger? Or...no?

The whole idea of the "pullrack" as described in that video was being treated as though it were a revolutionary new thing. Huh? I'd say that absolutely every shooter who has ever spent any amount of time with a pumpgun...rifle or shotgun...does that automatically, no thinking or discovery required.

I've wanted a bolt 9mm forever, but had almost talked myself into ordering the pump version of this gun...but now I'm rethinking that and leaning back towards a bolt. If I hadn't read this thread, I never would have suspected that the pumping cycle and locking method here was in any way different from my old 870's and other pumpguns. I can't help but think that a lot of shooters will buy and are buying this gun without benefit of reading discussions like this one. I suspect there will be an awful lot of WTF? moments when those boxes start to arrive and the happy new owners start to coonfinger their new toys.

Very good points.

I can only imagine that the design engineers at Derya have figured out that installing some atrocious pump action mechanism that's really hard to cycle on these would be extremely detrimental to the firearm's popularity and to the brand's reputation... so I don't think the pump action will be THAT bad. It would help if there was more information about it "out there" or a demo video, though!

The one advantage of a pump over bolt gun is that you never need to break one of your points of contact with the firearm to cycle it. In theory, a pump can be cycled as fast and kept on target as effectively as a semi, with practice. It would really suck if Derya negated that advantage with some bullsh*t Hyundai Accent suspension spring in the action, lol!

 

[Can-down]

Most likely scenario is there is some stiff grease or preservative that needs to be cleaned out and a bit of a break in period to smooth out the rough spots..... the suspense builds.

 

[StrelokM38]

I'd love a 9mm bolt action but man... That thing looks horrendous.

I wish they'd make some normal looking guns.

 

[jjohnwm]

I watched Adriel in those Shotshow videos, and he seemed a bit surprised and puzzled by the apparent lack of any kind of locking mechanism on the pump .22 rifle. Speaking for myself, I just wouldn't feel comfortable with that kind of set-up, and since the whole point of owning one of these things is to have fun...nope...

I can only imagine that the design engineers at Derya have figured out that installing some atrocious pump action mechanism that's really hard to cycle on these would be extremely detrimental to the firearm's popularity and to the brand's reputation... so I don't think the pump action will be THAT bad.

Sounds logical...but...I wonder how much thought is put into establishing and building the reputation of Derya rifles...as opposed to just trying to get you to buy one right now.

I can recall plenty of products that I've bought or examined, and been totally astonished by some of the world-class stupidity shown by their engineering, features and/or quality.

Most likely scenario is there is some stiff grease or preservative that needs to be cleaned out and a bit of a break in period to smooth out the rough spots..... the suspense builds.

Yeah...great...I can't wait to buy a brand new gun that requires me to clean out 40-year-old cosmoline before shooting it...

All in all, these new pump guns are not something I will be ordering sight unseen online. I'd need to see and handle one in the flesh before making a purchase decision. I will likely order a bolt gun before that happens. A 12-inch 9mm bolt gun will be a wonderful backyard pest plinker...and there's a chance I have a few rounds of ammo already on hand for it...

 

[Can-down]

I'd love a 9mm bolt action but man... That thing looks horrendous.

I wish they'd make some normal looking guns.

The short one looks handy.... I can see people making different after market foreends if they take off, and the way the roll out of the pump action has been it might even come in a different configuration not shown on their website?

I can live with homley looks if she's a performer when and where it counts....

Most likely I'd just get rid of the front sight, throw an optic on it and mount a rail where the sling stud is.
Derya makes a s h i t ton of different models, colors etc... they have some guns with nice wood stocks.

The plastic is cheap and utilitarian, but just making this stock out of wood would be a huge step up in looks.
I like the use of a traditional stock over a pistol grip for this model.

 

[Can-down]

Yeah...great...I can't wait to buy a brand new gun that requires me to clean out 40-year-old cosmoline before shooting it...

All in all, these new pump guns are not something I will be ordering sight unseen online. I'd need to see and handle one in the flesh before making a purchase decision. I will likely order a bolt gun before that happens. A 12-inch 9mm bolt gun will be a wonderful backyard pest plinker...and there's a chance I have a few rounds of ammo already on hand for it...

It should only be 3 month old gunk.... most likely a quick clean and light lube followed by cycling the action a thousand times or so!

I have a feeling there will be some range feedback in the next day or so.