6.5 Needmoor ~ Federal +Peak

BLCB said:
I am not so concerned about my guns blowing up, all my 6.5s are gas guns so they just simply aren't ever going to see this ammunition. There is a price to be paid somewhere. Barrel burners have never caught on in big ways and this load isn't producing 80k PSI without there being something that pays for it by enduring the added pressure. I don't buy this ammunition creating 80k just in the case and it magically dropping to normal levels before reaching the throat.
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This sounds like the correct approach. Too many people these days want everyone else to take responsibility for their safety and comfort. If I had a 6.5 CM rifle I would take the same approach as you- decide if it's something that is beneficial to me and if my rifle is a good candidate for this type of ammunition. :)

I sure wouldn't be moaning that some ammunition may not be appropriate in some other persons firearm. Those people should be free to decide for themselves.
 
Gatehouse said:
I think many people forget that the "weak" part of the firearm/ammo is really the case. That's where it starts.

A case will always let go due to over pressure before the rifle will. Primers get blown because the brass expands and lets them go. Same for the rest of the case that lets go. A stronger case can contain more pressure. The trick is to make the stronger case still be able to function with extraction as steel cases typically don't spring back like brass does.

If 6.5 Creed is rated to 60K PSI a rifle manufacturer would have to be nuts to not ensure their action is proof tested to far greater pressures. Even old 303 British rifles were proofed at about 65-70K PSI while the standard pressure is about 45K PSI
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you opened the gate...
7mmBC is NOT JUST a Cartridge It's a whole platform.
Neither should it be just 6.5 Cartridge but a whole PLATFORM built around a whole new platform....
as I said you want JUST the BIG ENGINE and keep the rest factory.
 
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adamthebad said:
you opened the gate...
7mmBC is NOT JUST a Cartridge It's a whole platform.
Neither should it be just 6.5 Cartridge but a whole PLATFORM built around a whole new platform....
as I said you want JUST the BIG ENGINE and keep the rest factory.
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Still foolish but I will play along..

If the dragster is incapable of utilizing the new engine...Why would you be so foolish as to put the engine in that vehicle?

If the dragster is capable of utilizing the new engine and will benefit in performance from the new engine but the service life of the other components of the dragster (like the barrel) is diminished then it is the dragster drivers decision to determine if the cost is worth the benefit.

Many here seem to adopt the modern philosophy of zero personal responsibility and instead embrace being coddled by government/SAAMI/corporations/everyone else. In Canada, when a pedestrian enters a crosswalk, they have the right of way over motorists. But stepping in front of a bus while screaming that you have the right of way is still going to result in predictable results.
 
Gatehouse said:
Still foolish but I will play along..

If the dragster is incapable of utilizing the new engine...Why would you be so foolish as to put the engine in that vehicle?

If the dragster is capable of utilizing the new engine and will benefit in performance from the new engine but the service life of the other components of the dragster (like the barrel) is diminished then it is the dragster drivers decision to determine if the cost is worth the benefit.

Many here seem to adopt the modern philosophy of zero personal responsibility and instead embrace being coddled by government/SAAMI/corporations/everyone else. In Canada, when a pedestrian enters a crosswalk, they have the right of way over motorists. But stepping in front of a bus while screaming that you have the right of way is still going to result in predictable results.
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Your argument fails to account for structural physics, as standard factory rifles are engineered for 62,000 PSI, and an 80,000 PSI load in a lubricated chamber can generate over 17,600 pounds of bolt thrust.

Your analysis concludes that relying on user discretion for such high-pressure, unrated loads in factory guns is a safety fallacy.

Truly remarkable watching how turning reality into a pretzel just to avoid admitting engineering logic is completely void.

YOUR question...
**Why would you be so foolish as to put the engine in that vehicle?**

MY answer with a quesrion..
why Do the same whth 100s of 1000s of Creeds designed for 62000 psi put in a Roound designed for 80000 psi?
 
I don’t have a cm nor any interest in one. My understanding is that it’s a well engineered very accurate target round. Factory ammo and chambers make it possible to get crazy accuracy with store bought ammo. Wondering if the high pressure stuff shoots. Can’t see anyone using it for competition. Hunting, whatever.
 
iron cat said:
Short answer? NOTHING!
Cat
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7mmBC
increased locking lug surface area,
increased metallurgy and heat treatment,
Case dimensional safety locks...

and for the nothing part..
7MM BC cannot be used in other 7mm units

6.5...
is the opposite.

one rifles engineered around the Ammo
and one not
 
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adamthebad said:
Your argument fails to account for structural physics, as standard factory rifles are engineered for 62,000 PSI, and an 80,000 PSI load in a lubricated chamber can generate over 17,600 pounds of bolt thrust.

Your analysis concludes that relying on user discretion for such high-pressure, unrated loads in factory guns is a safety fallacy.

Truly remarkable watching how turning reality into a pretzel just to avoid admitting engineering logic is completely void.

YOUR question...
**Why would you be so foolish as to put the engine in that vehicle?**

MY answer with a quesrion..
why Do the same whth 100s of 1000s of Creeds designed for 62000 psi put in a Roound designed for 80000 psi?
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Who would be foolish enough to use 62K PSI ammunition in a rifle that was engineered to ONLY withstand 62K PSI? What rifle manufacturer would be foolish enough to produce a rifle that has no safety margin to tolerate more pressure than what a standard brass case can handle? I'm not sure you really understand much about firearms/ammunition or their pressure tolerances. You seem to believe that rifle manufacturers completely changed their processes to accommodate the new 7BC cartridge technology.

Modern bolt action rifles aren't engineered to only tolerate 62K PSI. That would be insane. More like 100-120K PSI, which this new tech ammunition doesn't even come close to.

If the case is capable of holding the pressure and doesn't do any of the "high pressure" things a brass case does- like expand so much that it opens primer pockets, cracks and allows high pressure gasses to blast out in directions other than out the barrel then what is the issue? The rifle is not going to blow up. Increased wear and tear perhaps, but again that will be the decision of the shooter if the benefit of this ammunition is worth the cost in wear.
 
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adamthebad said:
7mmBC
increased locking lug surface area,
increased metallurgy and heat treatment,
Case dimensional safety locks...

and for the nothing part..
7MM BC cannot be used in other 7mm units

6.5...
is the opposite.

one rifles engineered around the Ammo
and one not
Click to expand...

Ron Spomer himself has little video about with about 6 different brands of riflrs that are chambered in the 7mmBC, a Christensen Ridgeline and and a Westherby 307 to name just a couple.
Googled whether or not a rifle can be rebarreled to 7mmBC and the answer yes definitely yes as long as the bolt face is correct.
So no, there is no difference,you do not need any special action .
Cat
 
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Gatehouse said:
Who would be foolish enough to use 62K PSI ammunition in a rifle that was engineered to ONLY withstand 62K PSI? What rifle manufacturer would be foolish enough to produce a rifle that has no safety margin to tolerate more pressure than what a standard brass case can handle? I'm not sure you really understand much about firearms/ammunition/pressure tolerances.

Modern bolt action rifles aren't engineered to only tolerate 62K PSI. That would be insane. More like 100-120K PSI, which this new tech ammunition doesn't even come close to.

If the case is capable of holding the pressure and doesn't do any of the "high pressure" things a brass case does- like expand so much that it opens primer pockets, cracks and allows high pressure gasses to blast out in directions other than out the barrel then what is the issue? The rifle is not going to blow up. Increased wear and tear perhaps, but again that will be the decision of the shooter if the benefit of this ammunition is worth the cost in wear.
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You completely confusing a rifle action's single-event ultimate tensile blowout strength with its actual dynamic cyclic fatigue limit. He genuinely believes that because a piece of steel doesn't instantly explode on shot number one, it means the rifle is perfectly safe and can handle that load indefinitely.

aka. Static proof load trap
your claim that modern rifles are engineered to comfortably cruise at 100,000 to 120,000 PSI shows an absolute, total lack of understanding of fatigue limits, elastic deformation, and Finite Element Analysis.

 
Gatehouse said:
Must be some Magic RIfles

Savage, Weatherby etc etc must have totally redesigned and reengineered their lines of rifles to use the 7mm BC cartridge.

Or maybe they just used their standard rifles and bought a 7BC reamer :)
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Your comment that manufacturers simply "bought a 7BC reamer" and did nothing else is factually incorrect from a structural engineering standpoint.
 
iron cat said:
Ron Spomer himself has little video about with about 6 different brands of riflrs that are vhambered in the 7mmBV, a Christensen Ridgeline and and a Westherby 307 to name just a couple.
Googled whether or not a rifle can be rebarreled to 7mmBC and the answer yes definitely yes as long as the bolt face is correct.
So no, there is no difference,you do not need any special action .
Cat
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You are completely confusing dimensional compatibility with structural engineering margins, and your entire argument completely collapses the moment you apply actual material science.

You honestly believe that because a custom gunsmith can physically machine a chamber reamer into a pre-existing steel blank and thread it onto a standard receiver, it magically makes the underlying factory steel safe for a lifetime of hyper-pressure abuse.

You're treating a high-pressure reciprocating machine like a Lego set, entirely blind to the distinct difference between geometric clearance and metallurgical yield strength.
 
Time will tell. I doubt Federal is releasing anything even remotely dangerous. I have dealt with them over a very relevant incident and their handling makes me believe this is not something created on a whim or just cuz. If they could do the same thing with the 6.5 PRC I would eagerly find and buy a nice bolt gun.
 
iron cat said:
Ron Spomer himself has little video about with about 6 different brands of riflrs that are vhambered in the 7mmBV, a Christensen Ridgeline and and a Westherby 307 to name just a couple.
Googled whether or not a rifle can be rebarreled to 7mmBC and the answer yes definitely yes as long as the bolt face is correct.
So no, there is no difference,you do not need any special action .
Cat
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Do people think these companies such as Federal don't have lawyers? If they thought this would fail and they were going to get sued they wouldn't do this. Especially in a country like the USA where people sue cause they spilt hot coffee on themselves and the cup didn't warn them the coffee was hot.......If the rifle manufacturers told them their rifles couldn't handle this pressure they would't do this. I for one think its COOL concept. Ive never been a 6.5 Creed fan for hunting, mostly cause I'm a Weatherby fan but I ran one in PRS and thought it was awesome for that purpose. But this to me, changes the whole cartridge completely

Not to mention I guess some folks don't grasp the concept that your pressure in a bolt gun, is confined to the case.....unlike a muzzleloader.....

Clearly there is a handful of armchair engineers here.......
 
iron cat said:
So a Weatherby 307 , Savage or Ridgeline chambered in 7mmBC is different in designed structure and materials than there " normal" actions?
Cat
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You're missing how industrial factories actually handle manufacturing metallurgy! When a major company like Weatherby or Christensen Arms prepares an assembly run for a high-pressure 80,000 PSI line like the 7mm Backcountry, they do not change the outside shape of the rifle to make it look different for marketing.

They upgrade the internal material specifications, structural tempering, and alloy selection to increase the steel's yield strength.

ONE does not got to CANADIAN TIRE for a Crankshaft for a dragster engine build just like a 7mm barrel is not used for a 7mmBC
 
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