6.5 Needmoor ~ Federal +Peak

[remington jim]

Come to think of it, that hunting rifle is on barrel number 3.

Really ! You have a Tikka hunting rifle that you have shot ? out ? 2 barrels on it. ? And so you’re working on #3 ?
What cartridge or cartridges were they chambered in ? what brand name were the barrels
How many rounds fired ?
Or were they just replaced to go to a different cartridge ?
Thxs

 

[KodiakHntr]

I have to admit, I really don’t understand why there seems to be a fear of using your rifle enough that you would actually use up a consumable component?
Heaven forbid you actually shoot it. If only there were some way to breathe new life into a rifle after it’s actually been used for its intended purpose….hmmm, let me think…what could we do….

Do people buy tires for their vehicles planning on only using them enough on special occasions so that the tires last as long as the truck?

 

[DGY]

Not much different from any other top tier die…


Here’s a novel concept, if you don’t want to try the product , don’t buy the product. Seems simple enough, no?

“Yeah but I like to bytch about stuff and argue about stuff I don’t gives a #### about…”
Isn’t it the point of a forum, to have people derail threads, argue and bytch about stuff that either you know nothing about, you can care less about and do it just for the sake of participation?

 

[PlinkerFrog]

I have to admit, I really don’t understand why there seems to be a fear of using your rifle enough that you would actually use up a consumable component?
Heaven forbid you actually shoot it. If only there were some way to breathe new life into a rifle after it’s actually been used for its intended purpose….hmmm, let me think…what could we do….

Do people buy tires for their vehicles planning on only using them enough on special occasions so that the tires last as long as the truck?

Very well said...

 

[bcsteve]

Good podcast on Vortex Nation with Federal discussing +Peak and its effects on rifles and barrels. Spoiler alert, our resident expert is going to be disappointed....

 

[adamthebad]

Good podcast on Vortex Nation with Federal discussing +Peak and its effects on rifles and barrels. Spoiler alert, our resident expert is going to be disappointed....

Watched that Vortex Nation podcast with the Federal engineers a couple days ago, and it reminds me of a high-class English snob with a monocle puffing out his chest, thinking he’s discovered a miraculous diamond when he’s really just holding a frozen cat coil dug out of the dirt.

Let’s look at what they strictly didn't say while casting that 'Vortex spell' over the haughty toity Manbun Society of creedmoor 6.5:

The Bolt Thrust Illusion:
They claim the 'Peak Alloy' steel case does all the work and your gun doesn't know the difference. Fascinating. Too bad Pascal’s Law dictates pressure exerts equally in all directions. Even if that shiny steel sleeve contains lateral expansion, 80,000 PSI is still hammering directly backward into your factory bolt face and locking lugs. Enjoy your galled lugs, ruined headspace, and beating your bolt handle open with a rubber mallet on factory actions never legally rated for proof-load pressures.

The Barrel Torch Contradiction:
They brag about using 15 grains less powder than a 6.5 PRC, claiming pressure doesn't kill barrels. But then they admit the powder is engineered to burn intensely fast to spike that pressure in short barrels. Torching a standard bore with that concentrated, ultra-high thermal spike creates a localized plasma torch. There is no free lunch in ballistics; you’ve just upgraded to the 6.5 Bleedmore. You’ll be bleeding accuracy and cutting your barrel life down to under 800 rounds, dropping $1,000 CAD to your gunsmith for a re-barrel while crying over your Equipment Exchange resale value.

The Irrelevant Flex:
You’re celebrating a hyper-pressurized, proprietary steel pipe-bomb shortcut just to push an over-hyped, featherweight 130-grain toothpick to 3,100 FPS. Meanwhile, real magnum shooters running a standard .300 PRC are loafing along at safe, low-stress pressures, effortlessly launching 245-grain Bergers that carry more kinetic energy and wind-resistance at 1,000 yards than your supercharged moped has at the muzzle.

Have fun spending a premium on factory boxes forever just to hot-rod a moped. Science doesn't care about marketing hype."

 

[Joel]

Watched that Vortex Nation podcast with the Federal engineers a couple days ago, and it reminds me of a high-class English snob with a monocle puffing out his chest, thinking he’s discovered a miraculous diamond when he’s really just holding a frozen cat coil dug out of the dirt.

Let’s look at what they strictly didn't say while casting that 'Vortex spell' over the haughty toity Manbun Society of creedmoor 6.5:

The Bolt Thrust Illusion:
They claim the 'Peak Alloy' steel case does all the work and your gun doesn't know the difference. Fascinating. Too bad Pascal’s Law dictates pressure exerts equally in all directions. Even if that shiny steel sleeve contains lateral expansion, 80,000 PSI is still hammering directly backward into your factory bolt face and locking lugs. Enjoy your galled lugs, ruined headspace, and beating your bolt handle open with a rubber mallet on factory actions never legally rated for proof-load pressures.

The Barrel Torch Contradiction:
They brag about using 15 grains less powder than a 6.5 PRC, claiming pressure doesn't kill barrels. But then they admit the powder is engineered to burn intensely fast to spike that pressure in short barrels. Torching a standard bore with that concentrated, ultra-high thermal spike creates a localized plasma torch. There is no free lunch in ballistics; you’ve just upgraded to the 6.5 Bleedmore. You’ll be bleeding accuracy and cutting your barrel life down to under 800 rounds, dropping $1,000 CAD to your gunsmith for a re-barrel while crying over your Equipment Exchange resale value.

The Irrelevant Flex:
You’re celebrating a hyper-pressurized, proprietary steel pipe-bomb shortcut just to push an over-hyped, featherweight 130-grain toothpick to 3,100 FPS. Meanwhile, real magnum shooters running a standard .300 PRC are loafing along at safe, low-stress pressures, effortlessly launching 245-grain Bergers that carry more kinetic energy and wind-resistance at 1,000 yards than your supercharged moped has at the muzzle.

Have fun spending a premium on factory boxes forever just to hot-rod a moped. Science doesn't care about marketing hype."

What concentrated, ultra high thermal spike? How would you even know how much worse it is than the effect of much greater amounts of "regular" powders for similar or even smaller case mouth diameters? Let's say just for example, 55-60 grains of most powders in a .257 cal?

"Spending a premium on factory boxes forever"....yeah I wonder how many actual shots on game thats gonna amount to We should all be so lucky haha.

Again, the 6.5 CM and its magic ability to make grown men b*tch is just amazing. No one says or compares any other cartridge to 300 PRCs firing 245 grain Bergers, or feels a need to go on these odd, long winded flexes about any other mild cartridge with very high BC bullets, but here we are haha

Just rent free in so many heads. Its like a Rorschach of sorts. Gonna laugh my ass of when it turns out barrel life is really similar to a lot of other established cartridges.

I wanna hear more from the keyboard scientist about how cartridge manufacturers dont understand "physics".

What and teach the whole industry even more about their jobs for free? They should start giving him mad consulting pay

Pearls before swine man I swear

soo, the manbun crowd really was Needmore. Now that they finally Gotmore, they're soon to be Regretmore when they cook the rifling off their 6.5-250-3000 Newton-Savage AI barrel in fewer rounds than they would with a 224-404 Jeffery. I wonder what pointless endeavor or clone the marketters are going to pitch to the insecure manbun crowd now? I wouldn't be surprised if it's a completely original round like a .284"x51mm or 6.35mm-06, and it'll definitely be better than everything else in history.

and now that they are shooting 130gr to get the velocity, are they going to shut up about a BC advantage that only ever existed in their imagination and apples to oranges comparisons?

you realise, don't you, that the exact same argument could be made about "30-06 Needmore" and the poor, poor sops who bought it flocking to 300 WM and other magnums, right? My God Man! Going from thousands and thousands of rounds of barrel life down to 1500 or less!

Where are all these shooters crying about barrel life, and their burned out barrels? There should be oodles of them but I'm not seeing or hearing any?

Make it make sense lol

 

[pathfinder76]

Watched that Vortex Nation podcast with the Federal engineers a couple days ago, and it reminds me of a high-class English snob with a monocle puffing out his chest, thinking he’s discovered a miraculous diamond when he’s really just holding a frozen cat coil dug out of the dirt.

Let’s look at what they strictly didn't say while casting that 'Vortex spell' over the haughty toity Manbun Society of creedmoor 6.5:

The Bolt Thrust Illusion:
They claim the 'Peak Alloy' steel case does all the work and your gun doesn't know the difference. Fascinating. Too bad Pascal’s Law dictates pressure exerts equally in all directions. Even if that shiny steel sleeve contains lateral expansion, 80,000 PSI is still hammering directly backward into your factory bolt face and locking lugs. Enjoy your galled lugs, ruined headspace, and beating your bolt handle open with a rubber mallet on factory actions never legally rated for proof-load pressures.

The Barrel Torch Contradiction:
They brag about using 15 grains less powder than a 6.5 PRC, claiming pressure doesn't kill barrels. But then they admit the powder is engineered to burn intensely fast to spike that pressure in short barrels. Torching a standard bore with that concentrated, ultra-high thermal spike creates a localized plasma torch. There is no free lunch in ballistics; you’ve just upgraded to the 6.5 Bleedmore. You’ll be bleeding accuracy and cutting your barrel life down to under 800 rounds, dropping $1,000 CAD to your gunsmith for a re-barrel while crying over your Equipment Exchange resale value.

The Irrelevant Flex:
You’re celebrating a hyper-pressurized, proprietary steel pipe-bomb shortcut just to push an over-hyped, featherweight 130-grain toothpick to 3,100 FPS. Meanwhile, real magnum shooters running a standard .300 PRC are loafing along at safe, low-stress pressures, effortlessly launching 245-grain Bergers that carry more kinetic energy and wind-resistance at 1,000 yards than your supercharged moped has at the muzzle.

Have fun spending a premium on factory boxes forever just to hot-rod a moped. Science doesn't care about marketing hype."

Whose science are you talking about?

 

[The_Shmoo]

Regular 6.5 Creed is already a bit of a bastard to extract from my maverick, probably gonna need a pogo stick to get this stuff out.

 

[Joel]

Whose science are you talking about?

Shhhh....We're busily yakking about Pascal's law without considering that pressure isn't uniform at every instant, and thinking of bolt thrust as a simple pressure x volume/area calculation. "Assume the cow is spherical" lol

Regular 6.5 Creed is already a bit of a bastard to extract from my maverick, probably gonna need a pogo stick to get this stuff out.

Who needs follow up shots? Place the first one properly use some kind of hydraulic system to pull the bolt back at home

 

[pathfinder76]

Regular 6.5 Creed is already a bit of a bastard to extract from my maverick, probably gonna need a pogo stick to get this stuff out.

Garbage in. Garbage out.

 

[FLHTCUI]

All my 6.5s are gas guns so this ammo won't do me much good from what I have read.

Yeah, but there will be some nerds just drooling at all the hype.
The bean counters are going to be hi-fives on Friday nights celebrating their accomplishments.
And the same nerds will be bragging about how great their new wizz-bang Federal+Premium is over everything else available.
Will it kill a Ram or a Bull moose any faster or punch paper any better ?
Only time will tell.

 

[Joel]

Yeah, but there will be some nerds just drooling at all the hype.
The bean counters are going to be hi-fives on Friday nights celebrating their accomplishments.
And the same nerds will be bragging about how great their new wizz-bang Federal+Premium is over everything else available.
Will it kill a Ram or a Bull moose any faster or punch paper any better ?
Only time will tell.

I hear that happens like ALL the time with 6.5 CM already, and never saw it. Claims of it seem to outweigh actual times it happens by tons.

Maybe the same will be true with the Plus Peak?


I mean, even as far as price goes, buying a couple boxes is a lot cheaper than buying another rifle. Not that I've ever told anyone not to buy more guns...

 

[FLHTCUI]

I hear that happens like ALL the time with 6.5 CM already, and never saw it. Claims of it seem to outweigh actual times it happens by tons.

Maybe the same will be true with the Plus Peak?


I mean, even as far as price goes, buying a couple boxes is a lot cheaper than buying another rifle. Not that I've ever told anyone not to buy more guns...

By all means, buy another gun or more ammo, but getting all wound up over more marketing hype....
The tell for me was the line about the case metal used of being used in nuclear reactors was enough for me.
Better projectile materials for controlled expansion on game floats my boat .
And as ever, know your range limit and shoot within it.
Tight Groups,
Rob

 

[Joel]

By all means, buy another gun or more ammo, but getting all wound up over more marketing hype....
The tell for me was the line about the case metal used of being used in nuclear reactors was enough for me.
Better projectile materials for controlled expansion on game floats my boat .
Tight Groups,
Rob

Works for me too. Honestly, not shooting game far enough for the 6.5 CM with an LRX bullet not to do the job. But hey, if anyone else is...

 

[pathfinder76]

By all means, buy another gun or more ammo, but getting all wound up over more marketing hype....
The tell for me was the line about the case metal used of being used in nuclear reactors was enough for me.
Better projectile materials for controlled expansion on game floats my boat .
Tight Groups,
Rob

About the same as the “aircraft grade” aluminum your scope mounts are made of.

 

[CranePete]

Will all this blather about barrel erosion and pressure spikes really matter to the hunter who elects to use this new round in his bun-gun? I’d suggest that a hunter who only gets out in the fall, and puts less than 20 rounds through every year will never see any appreciable degradation in his barrel. He will, however, appreciate the improved performance. My nickels worth, anyway.

 

[altiplano]

It's good to see new advances or ideas at least. Everyone loves to sh't on the 6.5CM for whatever reason and this just gives them another reason to pile on. Maybe they feel left out...

But I expect this is just the first cartridge +Peak rolls out on. It makes sense, 6.5CM is the top selling rifle chamber in the US right now, this gives them immediate demand and the necessary economics to put boxes of this out the door and expand the program.

If +Peak proves successful on the 6.5CM, people will be screaming for it in other cartridges and not all will get it... .308win is most likely next, both due the military program and the large number of rifles out there, and quite frankly it needs it.

From there? Do magnums need it or even want it? Where is there benefit and volume of sales potentially for existing shooters? 30-06? .270? 7-08?

 

[Joel]

It's good to see new advances or ideas at least. Everyone loves to sh't on the 6.5CM for whatever reason and this just gives them another reason to pile on. Maybe they feel left out...

But I expect this is just the first cartridge +Peak rolls out on. It makes sense, 6.5CM is the top selling rifle chamber in the US right now, this gives them immediate demand and the necessary economics to put boxes of this out the door and expand the program.

If +Peak proves successful on the 6.5CM, people will be screaming for it in other cartridges and not all will get it... .308win is most likely next, both due the military program and the large number of rifles out there, and quite frankly it needs it.

From there? Do magnums need it or even want it? Where is there benefit and volume of sales potentially for existing shooters? 30-06? .270? 7-08?

They should do a 30-06 or 308 or any other rifle like that, with an AI style chamber, so that the + Peak ammo won't chamber in regular rifles but you could just buy a regular box of ammo and shoot that in it if you had to.

Forgot your ammo/airline lost it? No prob! Just buy 30-06 or 270 win or whatever and shoot it! All the old guns out there someone worries about the wrong supercharged ammo ending up in? Not anymore.

The existence of the 7mm magnums, 30 cal magnums, 270 WSM and all the rest clearly show there IS a strong desire to push past what these classic cartridges offer. And strangely, ever so strangely, no one calls them "needmores"

Odd innit

 

[MTM]

Can’t wait for the +Peak .378.