Better at distance

[Canuck65]

I’ve been playing with a new Tikka T3x CTR in 6.5 Creedmoor and noticed something on multiple range trips. Groups at 100 yds are ok running approximately moa at 100 yds but .6 to .75 moa at 200 and 300 yds with the same load. At 100 it seems consistently to have 2 touching and a half inch gap with 3 touching. The groups at 200 and 300 are normally just a nice round group usually more lateral spread than vertical spread. I don’t have a chrony so I don’t have any data. I don’t shoot past 100 yds often but when I do typically groups get worse with distance not better. I was shooting off an ok front rest with a rear squeeze bag. Rifle is stock and the barrel is free floating. Is this something in my shooting technique?

Strange question, but is the firing position higher/lower at the 100 or 200 range? At our club the benches are maybe 10 or 15 meters higher than the target board on the 100, but completely level on the 200. Also, the 100 has a weird wind swirl thing that happens because of the very high berms. It works like a funnel. To add to this, the 100 runs parallel to the prevailing wind and the 200 runs perpendicular. I get better groups at 200 as well, but I believe it’s because of the conditions, not the load.

Just something to consider.

 

[rugbydave]

IMHO, your bullets are spinning more erratically at close range and get more stable as the distance increases. Contact the manufacturer and ask the bullet's designed best performance range.

For consideration, the 30-cal 168-gr Sierra HPBTM was introduced in the 1950s for 300-m international matches. The ballistics plonk it consistently into the bull at close range. Based on that behaviour the Canadian Army snipers chose it for issue ammo, but were disappointed with accuracy beyond 600-yds. Not Norma Sweden's fault, or the trigger pullers. I know a guy who fired hundreds of rounds in testing trying to understand. Had someone read the Sierra literature (or knew anything more about ballistics than was taught on the small arms instructor course), they could have saved a lot of barrel life. I think the answer was to go to 175-gr bullets and accept some compromises.

I wish people would stop repeating this stuff... bullets cannot get "more stable" at distance, that's not a real thing.

Your parallel to the 168gr SMKs poor performance at distance is not the same thing at all. The 168s just have a less than ideal BC and struggle in the transonic zone, hence being less predictable as distances increase (hitting the "wall" around 800m).

OP what you are most likely seeing is just the incomplete picture you get a from a small sample size. How many groups have you shot at each range (100, 200, 300). I'd be willing to bet that if you spent a day shooting say 10 groups at each distance then your group size would average out.

 

[call2arms]

I am of the opinion that the longer range group is better as a result of parallax or more likely human factor that you try harder at a farther distance. It is related to suitability of target and sights. If the aiming point is precise better results will be achieved

 

[Potashminer]

I’ve been playing with a new Tikka T3x CTR in 6.5 Creedmoor and noticed something on multiple range trips. Groups at 100 yds are ok running approximately moa at 100 yds but .6 to .75 moa at 200 and 300 yds with the same load. At 100 it seems consistently to have 2 touching and a half inch gap with 3 touching. The groups at 200 and 300 are normally just a nice round group usually more lateral spread than vertical spread. I don’t have a chrony so I don’t have any data. I don’t shoot past 100 yds often but when I do typically groups get worse with distance not better. I was shooting off an ok front rest with a rear squeeze bag. Rifle is stock and the barrel is free floating. Is this something in my shooting technique?

There is a thing related to barrel bedding (or lack of it), or a shifting receiver that results in two distinct groups being formed. I had never heard of distance being a factor though. Perhaps, you will not see it with a single group of five shots - might need multiple (3 or 4 groups of 10 shots) to see the phenomenon and properly diagnose it. A single group of 5 or 3 shots "proves" not much (statistically) - you want a valid basis to know where your "next" shot is going to go (your unfired shot)

In the 1980's I had a Savage 112V in 22-250 - using my hand loads and a Lyman All-American 10X fixed power scope, I watched a buddy fire five rounds into a 5 lobed cluster at 100 yards - that we could cover that cluster with the head of a 22-250 case - that is, completely cover it - nothing peeking out past that case head. So, if you accept a 22-250 has a case head at 0.473", then that was probably a sub 0.250" C-C "group". At the time and place, we did not have proper tools to measure that "group" - I spent years and many dozen attempts to replicate that group and never could - but I watched it done. I have simply resigned myself that he was a better shooter than I was - or maybe luckier or whatever - but my rifle, my scope, my hand-loads, my sand bags, etc.

 

[sonichanxiao]

Need to see your groups and know how you load your round.

 

[fwm]

Strange question, but is the firing position higher/lower at the 100 or 200 range? At our club the benches are maybe 10 or 15 meters higher than the target board on the 100, but completely level on the 200. Also, the 100 has a weird wind swirl thing that happens because of the very high berms. It works like a funnel. To add to this, the 100 runs parallel to the prevailing wind and the 200 runs perpendicular. I get better groups at 200 as well, but I believe it’s because of the conditions, not the load.

Just something to consider.

I would call the 100 yard targets level or slightly lower than the firing point and the 200 and 300 stepped up 6-8 feet per backstop.
I want to stress I’m not unhappy with my rifle or trying to fix anything I’m just curious about the results I’m seeing.
Typically if I’m shooting 3/4 moa at 100yds it will drop to moa or worse when i shoot further.
I would consider myself able to shoot 1/2 moa consistently if the rifle is capable.

 

[sigpig]

Zeroed at 100 yards. I shot 200 without adjusting to see what I would get got drop and I dialed up 4 moa for 300. I’m going to see if I can print a target with a square aim point and aim at a corner to see if this still happens.

Seems like you have the technique, only thing I can think of would be to get a solid clamp style rest and shoot groups from that, eliminating the human factor.

As others have posted, some bullets need the distance, some don't, have you had the opportunity to go past 300 yards??