Hard time finding the lands

I

Ivanna

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I have used the Hornady tool and modified case but similar to other methods when I push the bullet the first feeling of anything against the bullet I stop the set screw and measure the overall length but when I do this it does not look right as the bullet is too far into the case. Then I try again and push the bullet I feel same point and I can still push then there is a hard stop. I assume this is the lands???
I assume the harder I push against the hard stop the further I go into the lands. It is difficult to stop the bullet right before that hard stop.

SO I try the primal rights method also with the sharpie.
I remove my firing pin assembly and the plunger. I used a sized case with bullet fruther out and slowly push the bullet in and feel for the resistance when closing the bolt. This I feel is more difficult as I have hard time when im close to the lands and trying to find that spot. The camming click on my bolt is hard to feel if the bullet is sticking or not. So I paint the bullet ogive with sharpie.
I do same method and look at the paint. I see the lands first touch and has a small mark on the bullet ogive.
The mark is think could be the same as with the above method where it touches and I can still push???

I am so confused with finding the lands for this rifle.
My rifle is a howa mini with preferred barrel with nut and free bore of 131. I will just measure the bullet to max mag length then work my way down to the manual COAL looking for the lands. More so it will be very close to the COAL.

Pls help.
 
I would be inclined to mark the ogive with a sharpie, then try the Hornady tool.
Might be easier to tell than just by feel if you're actually at the lands.
 
What cartridge are you looking at? Some cartridges may pose difficulty finding lands (ie: 204 Ruger, too much freebore to find lands).

What kind of ogive profile does your bullet have? I've had no problems finding lands with a tangent ogive bullet, but a secant/hybrid ogive has been much more challenging.

I use the Cortina method as well.
 
Bustercluck said:
For the first method with a hornady tool I’ve had success putting a bit of oil on the bullet to help it slide through a tight freebore.
Click to expand...
Ok so this helps I did not know that the first section the freebore is touching. So this explains everything as I thought the first touch was rifling. I will try the oil and also check out Cortina.
 
Ivanna said:
I have used the Hornady tool and modified case but similar to other methods when I push the bullet the first feeling of anything against the bullet I stop the set screw and measure the overall length but when I do this it does not look right as the bullet is too far into the case. Then I try again and push the bullet I feel same point and I can still push then there is a hard stop. I assume this is the lands???
I assume the harder I push against the hard stop the further I go into the lands. It is difficult to stop the bullet right before that hard stop.

SO I try the primal rights method also with the sharpie.
I remove my firing pin assembly and the plunger. I used a sized case with bullet fruther out and slowly push the bullet in and feel for the resistance when closing the bolt. This I feel is more difficult as I have hard time when im close to the lands and trying to find that spot. The camming click on my bolt is hard to feel if the bullet is sticking or not. So I paint the bullet ogive with sharpie.
I do same method and look at the paint. I see the lands first touch and has a small mark on the bullet ogive.
The mark is think could be the same as with the above method where it touches and I can still push???

I am so confused with finding the lands for this rifle.
My rifle is a howa mini with preferred barrel with nut and free bore of 131. I will just measure the bullet to max mag length then work my way down to the manual COAL looking for the lands. More so it will be very close to the COAL.

Pls help.
Click to expand...
That hard stop would be your "jam" dimension. Cortina discusses it in that video. Odd that there is so little freebore on the barrel. Maybe try using a secant ogive bullet to get you out of the case a little further.
 
Read this a couple of times... it's pretty simple. Been doing this since the 70's.

Use a cleaning rod with a flat tip from the muzzle and the back of a pencil or something similar from the rear to push just the bullet forward against the lands, hold the cleaning rod right up to the tip of the bullet while the bullet is held forward.

Then wrap masking tape around the rod indicating the end of the barrel.

Then remove the bullet, and with the firing pin removed, close the bolt.

Place the rod tip against the bolt face.

Wrap masking tape around the rod indicating the end of the barrel.

Now measure the difference of the two tape marks - that is the OAL of a round touchng the rifling.
 
guntech said:
Read this a couple of times... it's pretty simple. Been doing this since the 70's.

Use a cleaning rod with a flat tip from the muzzle and the back of a pencil or something similar from the rear to push just the bullet forward against the lands, hold the cleaning rod right up to the tip of the bullet while the bullet is held forward.

Then wrap masking tape around the rod indicating the end of the barrel.

Then remove the bullet, and with the firing pin removed, close the bolt.

Place the rod tip against the bolt face.

Wrap masking tape around the rod indicating the end of the barrel.

Now measure the difference of the two tape marks - that is the OAL of a round touchng the rifling.
Click to expand...
I do very much the same thing, except I use a length of appropriate diameter drill rod and a couple drill stop collars instead of a cleaning rod and tape. Same thing otherwise, except I have to do the bolt face first.
 
Ivanna said:
I have used the Hornady tool and modified case but similar to other methods when I push the bullet the first feeling of anything against the bullet I stop the set screw and measure the overall length but when I do this it does not look right as the bullet is too far into the case. Then I try again and push the bullet I feel same point and I can still push then there is a hard stop. I assume this is the lands???
I assume the harder I push against the hard stop the further I go into the lands.
Click to expand...
Have you cleaned the chamber and bore. It is very difficult to get repeatable results if the chamber and bore are dirty.

There is no possibility you are pushing the bullet into the lands with a Hornady tool. Just push till the thing stops and then lock it down.


guntech said:
Read this a couple of times... it's pretty simple. Been doing this since the 70's.

Use a cleaning rod with a flat tip from the muzzle and the back of a pencil or something similar from the rear to push just the bullet forward against the lands, hold the cleaning rod right up to the tip of the bullet while the bullet is held forward.

Then wrap masking tape around the rod indicating the end of the barrel.

Then remove the bullet, and with the firing pin removed, close the bolt.

Place the rod tip against the bolt face.

Wrap masking tape around the rod indicating the end of the barrel.

Now measure the difference of the two tape marks - that is the OAL of a round touchng the rifling.
Click to expand...
There is ZERO possibility of getting an accurate measurement down to 0.001" using this method. I'd suggest there is probably zero possibility of getting it down to 0.010" accuracy measuring masking tape marks.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
There is ZERO possibility of getting an accurate measurement down to 0.001" using this method. I'd suggest there is probably zero possibility of getting it down to 0.010" accuracy measuring masking tape marks.
Click to expand...
It has worked well for me and many others for many years.
Once you do it a few times and using a padded vise and a digital caliper it is easier and more accurate than it sounds.
It quickly gives you a starting point to work from.
 
guntech said:
It quickly gives you a starting point to work from.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

There are always several ways to do a thing, and for this situation, knowing the number to 0.001” doesn’t matter. Cortina doesn’t care. He even addressed that point in his video.

If you take the measurement a few times and it’s a little different each time, go with the shortest one.

We’re going to back off from the lands a chunk and find a good distance that groups well. So the specific number is irrelevant.

Thanks for posting your method. 👍
 
I use the Hornady Comparator set to find the lands. I measure 10 different bullets, with the modified case, then add-up the 10 measurements and divide by 10. This gives me the average and I will start my my bullet seating by a .020 jump.
 
Thanks everyone I found the lands!!!! I used all methods but what helped was the imperial sizing die on the bullet ogive. What a difference. I was able to feel it clearer on the hornady comparator and also using the cortina method I tried 3 same bullets and 3 sized cases and all measured the same. Very happy with the results.
 
It would be easier to measure length to lands if there was clear hard stop when you touched them. Trouble is there isn’t, because you’re shoving a tapered bullet into a tapered hole and what one considers touching is subjective. One guy’s touching is the next guy’s jammed. For the sake of argument jammed and stuck are words that often can be used interchangably, so what if we defined any bullet that can’t fall free under its own weight as jammed? It’s stuck for sure. I know for a fact that a bullet can jam itself .030” or more just dropping into the chamber compared to pushing the bullet ahead with a pencil to the first hint of touching. Makes you wonder about the long standing advice about finding the lands and backing off 30 thousandths. Its easy to see where one guys 30 thou off is the next guys touching just by the different methods they use. They could very well be doing the same thing.

Anyway, it makes .001” sort of meaningless unless you’re the measure with a micrometer when you cutting with a chainsaw type.
 
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