.577 snider loads

fiddler said:
The posted Question: Does anyone know a resource for smokeless data for a .577 snider?


Lots of word salad going on here but not one person could name or suggest a published resource, book, link, manual, or website with ANY Load Data.

The only published material I could find was Cartridges of the World where it has a very old listing of both BP and smokeless ( Fg, FL, and 4198) and bullet weights of 350, 450, 470, and 480.

Twelve responding comments with Zero answers ??? Just a whole bunch of personal comments of items that were not asked.

Does anyone know anything about data this load?
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Black powder only in the snider nothing smokeless published or not is to be considered safe.

These guns other then the mk111 are conversions of p1853 enfield rifled muskets and have iron components not steel. even the mk111 with its steel barrel and locking bar is not very strong.

Another thing to consider is case capacity when it comes to smokeless you have a very large case capacity even with drawn brass and let alone with the magtech balloon head brass.
Large capacity with low charges of smokeless can lead to detonation.

Black powder is the ticket. With something like a .590-.600 round ball 50-60gr of BP is a good starting point with something over the powder to take up airspace.
 
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1fastjeep said:
I found this on The Handloaders Manuel of Cartridge Conversions 4th edition, it is suggesting that (an older?) edition of Barnes have some load date, maybe worth investigating?
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I fail to understand why anyone would want to. BP is available and bullet/filler/lube combos that shoot extremely well are easily found. Snider loading with BP is so easy that there's no conceivable advantage to smokeless, even if it weren't risky. Cleanup post shooting is so fast and easy that I usually do it right at the range.

milsurpo
 
1fastjeep said:
Because I don’t want people to try it on unverified info and get hurt.
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I think we've pretty well established in this thread that smokeless in a 577 Snider is a stupid idea.

I'm just curious what was tried as a load from an academic perspective.
Zero intention of trying it myself.
 
1fastjeep said:
it says 30 grains, please please keep it in mind the load data on this book is notoriously unreliable.
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Well...
Looking up the 45-70 loading of 460grain bullet with 29.8grains IMR 4198, that gives 19600psi pressure. Which is highly concerning.
Based on black powder load tables, i estimated the 577 Snider safe working pressure to be around 7000psi.
That load data is a pipe bomb waiting to happen.
 
Not sure how the pressure, using 30 gr of 4198, in a 45/70 which has a case volume of 75.5 gr water relates to the pressure, using 30 gr of the same powder, in a 577 case which has a volume of 114.5 gr water?
 
Pete04 said:
Not sure how the pressure, using 30 gr of 4198, in a 45/70 which has a case volume of 75.5 gr water relates to the pressure, using 30 gr of the same powder, in a 577 case which has a volume of 114.5 gr water?
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Another concern is the use of the 577 N.E. brass cut down. The vast majority of brass available is Mag Tec and that brass is super thin, the pressure results would be completly different using a much thicker brass, or as some have done, using 24 gauge shotgun hulls from Cheddite!
Cat
 
Don't get me wrong, I own a bunch of BP guns and love them all. I also own a good amount of black in all the f's.


I'm just wondering the comparison considering the huge difference in case volume between 45/70 and 577.
 
Pete04 said:
I'm just wondering the comparison considering the huge difference in case volume between 45/70 and 577.
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I agree, especially with fast burning Smokeless powder, one cannot extrapolate, or compare, modify or speculate on anything without proper pressure testing equipment.
It just does not work.
Take for example , it is pretty safe to load it in rifle cartridges, but in the high volume cartridges you have to be careful, otherwise detonation , hang fires etc, are bound to happen.
In a case the size of a Snider and their weak actions one is flirting with disaster.
That however is only my opinion , and you know what they say about opinions!🙄
As I stated earlier in this thread, I was not happy even trying Trail Boss using The approved loading method, simply because of what we were hearing when firing a couple of rounds- it sounded like a lot of ringing of the springs in the gun on recoil.
I don't get that at all when shooting with black.
Cat
 
Pete04 said:
Not sure how the pressure, using 30 gr of 4198, in a 45/70 which has a case volume of 75.5 gr water relates to the pressure, using 30 gr of the same powder, in a 577 case which has a volume of 114.5 gr water?
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Same bullet weight, same charge, both straight walled cartridges (ignoring the 577's slight taper). While the 577 has a larger volume and diameter (the latter will reduce pressure to a degree) it gives us an approximate idea what is going on pressure wise. Hardly perfect, and i wouldnt use it as a basis to build a load, but it gives us our closest point of comparison.
 
Deng577 said:
Same bullet weight, same charge, both straight walled cartridges (ignoring the 577's slight taper). While the 577 has a larger volume and diameter (the latter will reduce pressure to a degree) it gives us an approximate idea what is going on pressure wise. Hardly perfect, and i wouldnt use it as a basis to build a load, but it gives us our closest point of comparison.
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But you wouldn't ever fire a Snider with 30 grains of powder loose in the case. You'd add a lot of filler and then what "case volume" do you use to guesstimate pressures? if you do fire a load with a relatively tiny amount of powder and a lot of void then effects that can't be estimated come into play.

milsurpo
 
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