triggers
- Thread starter peterdobson
- Start date
What he said.
I spent many hours behind a No7 Lee Enfield as a young fella, and we did just fine with the two stage triggers.
I haven't tried a higher end two-stage trigger, maybe I'll get a chance this summer, eh Peter?
Booger pickin finger on 2 stage
GREAT THREAD ! With all the flaky threads lately its nice to see a real thread on gunnutz !
Although I love single stage (electric trigger is my fave) Seems to me that the slower I squeeze the tighter I shoot . The 2 stage slows me down even with my super light triggers and allows for more " feel " which is lacking in super light triggers. Seems I get more control with 2 stage.
This puppy has the crispest least travel trigger I have ever used (like breaking a glass thread), but shoots much better with a first stage adjusted in to slow me down.
GREAT THREAD ! With all the flaky threads lately its nice to see a real thread on gunnutz !
Although I love single stage (electric trigger is my fave) Seems to me that the slower I squeeze the tighter I shoot . The 2 stage slows me down even with my super light triggers and allows for more " feel " which is lacking in super light triggers. Seems I get more control with 2 stage.
This puppy has the crispest least travel trigger I have ever used (like breaking a glass thread), but shoots much better with a first stage adjusted in to slow me down.
I know that some trap shooters use a release trigger on their high-end shotguns.
Load, aim, squeeze trigger and release it to fire the action. I guess the theory is that it is more natural and less disruptive to the muscles to release tension than to add it. It mainly fixes flinch problems in trap shooters, apparently.
Downside, once the trigger is pulled the action must be fired or opened. Tricky to open a bolt without releasing that trigger, but I am sure that this could be solved if the benefits warranted the effort.
Food for thought. Try it when you're dry firing.
V7
Load, aim, squeeze trigger and release it to fire the action. I guess the theory is that it is more natural and less disruptive to the muscles to release tension than to add it. It mainly fixes flinch problems in trap shooters, apparently.
Downside, once the trigger is pulled the action must be fired or opened. Tricky to open a bolt without releasing that trigger, but I am sure that this could be solved if the benefits warranted the effort.
Food for thought. Try it when you're dry firing.
V7
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
GREAT THREAD ! With all the flaky threads lately its nice to see a real thread on gunnutz !
Although I love single stage (electric trigger is my fave) Seems to me that the slower I squeeze the tighter I shoot . The 2 stage slows me down even with my super light triggers and allows for more " feel " which is lacking in super light triggers. Seems I get more control with 2 stage.
This puppy has the crispest least travel trigger I have ever used (like breaking a glass thread), but shoots much better with a first stage adjusted in to slow me down.
I love them old school match rifles, I have a Martini as well as a few Anschutz match rifles , 64 and 54 action, and a very heavy Strella with a set trigger.
The Strella is a very well made russian job, before they started using Anschutz rifles for the Olympics....
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Ian, presumably you shell out many of your hard earned dinaros for aftermarket 2 stage triggers that can do this...have a definite stop that can be felt after the first stage, when properly adjusted (fiddled with). Now maybe my example of 3lb first/ 1/2lb second can't be achieved, but any reliable reduction of final let off 2lb/1.5lb say should be of benefit.
What are the ranges can be done with an RPA and CG reliably? This would determine their worth to a shooter?
To have a 2 stage trigger just to feel a first stage and have nearly all the weight on the second stage defeats the purpose...might as well have a military trigger in there that lets off at 3.5 lbs after a creepy take up.
NormB
Norm, CG triggers come with 2 springs, the lighter of which provides a first stage setting of 250g and 300g final pull at it's lowest setting. My Rem 700 originally had the light spring but was attending the Canadian International Sniper Concentration so changed it to the heavier spring which provides:
700-800 g first stage setting
1000-1800 g final pull
I have had many experienced marksmen dry-fire this and all say how lightly the final pull is. It is adjusted to 1.6 kg final pull!
There is a physiological aspect to this which I can't explain, but preloading your trigger finger makes the let-off seem considerably lighter than what it is.
Best regards,
Peter
700-800 g first stage setting
1000-1800 g final pull
I have had many experienced marksmen dry-fire this and all say how lightly the final pull is. It is adjusted to 1.6 kg final pull!
There is a physiological aspect to this which I can't explain, but preloading your trigger finger makes the let-off seem considerably lighter than what it is.
Best regards,
Peter
Peter,
3.5 lb is about 1.6kg and is, and according to Tom, the Bisley and DCRA prescribed trigger weight. So from your numbers you could set up a CG with an 800g first stage, and an 900g second stage. Thus a shooter could benefit from both a real, and preceived lighter trigger release of about 1/2 the mandated value. In my books all good.
NormB
. Still I like both. Each has it's place.I'm struggling with this. It's usual for me to preload a single stage trigger unless it is set very light. I preload my Sportco, which is set at 2lbs, by pressing on the trigger during the final aiming process, then apply the final increment of pressure just as the final picture is present. Do the same thing with my Anschutz 1700, which is still set at 2.25 lbs. for off-hand silhouette hunting rifle. I'm getting confused because having a light pull followed by a heavy pull seems backward. I can see that having any pull at all prior to the final pull might help, but I have had the idea of taking up most of the pressure before the final release when preloading a single stage trigger. I have a Poor Boy (original 0.41 muzzle loader, admittedly very old) with a double set trigger on it and the first trigger is a fairly strong pull that sets you up for the second trigger, which is light. This makes alot of sense to me in a rifle designed for hunting and it feels right. With the double bump military triggers on the Swedish Mausers I used to play with I can't recall a big difference between the first and second bumps, but I honed the final bump a bit smaller. The thinking seemed logical, i.e. having the smallest and the smoothest movement when making the final release. It looks like experience with good two stage triggers suggests a change in thinking is in order for me but I don't understand why. I think I am confused because I don't see why a small preload would be more effective than a large preload or why a light prelease preceeding a heavy release would be more effective than a heavy prerelease preceeding a light one.
Rock Rivers National Match. I have one in my LR-308. It really is a huge improvement over the crappy stock trigger. But the single stage Timmeys tactical really is something special (I have one on a 7mm rifle).
I'll be getting a Geiselle for an AR soon. That should be a better comparison between single and double stage match triggers.
I am not a trigger expert, but a light stage following a heavy first would be a set trigger. Most Fullbore shooters use 2-stage with RPA leading the way.
Epoxy 7, I see that there are a few newer 2-stage designs offering better performance over stock.
Regards,
Peter
Epoxy 7, I see that there are a few newer 2-stage designs offering better performance over stock.
Regards,
Peter
Peter,
Sorry, I know you likely answered this while I was emailing you about these triggers in the fall but thought maybe others would have the same question.
Can the CG be set-up to have a lighter second stage than the first stage? For example in hunter silhouette your trigger must be able to pick up a two pound weight. The idea behind using a two stage trigger for this discipline is to get the benefit of a light trigger pull and have the total spread out over two stages. I try to set-up my Annies to have a 24 ounce first stage and a 10 ounce second. Can the CG be set-up like the example above?
Sorry, I know you likely answered this while I was emailing you about these triggers in the fall but thought maybe others would have the same question.
Can the CG be set-up to have a lighter second stage than the first stage? For example in hunter silhouette your trigger must be able to pick up a two pound weight. The idea behind using a two stage trigger for this discipline is to get the benefit of a light trigger pull and have the total spread out over two stages. I try to set-up my Annies to have a 24 ounce first stage and a 10 ounce second. Can the CG be set-up like the example above?
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
BCfred, two stage triggers are often used in position rifle shooting, with a light first stage, and slightly heavier second stage, with very little if any at all overtravel.
The reason for this is that the shooter can start the secquence, but can let down if he wants to and restart.
it would be harder to do if one could not figure out where the second satge was, because the trigger finger has already started the trigger break.
Cat
The reason for this is that the shooter can start the secquence, but can let down if he wants to and restart.
it would be harder to do if one could not figure out where the second satge was, because the trigger finger has already started the trigger break.
Cat
Thanks Catnthehat.
I have a response from the manufacturer, Peter Jackson: Our triggers are typically set-up with about 60% on the first stage and 40% on the second stage - so if the trigger is set to lift 1 kg, the user will apply 600 g to complete the first pull travel, and a further 400 g to fire the trigger. Variation of 60/40 is possible.
In response to can the final pull weight be less than the weight needed to complete the first stage movement? - the answer is no, that would be against the laws of physics..
Peter Jackson owns Jackson Rifles, Scotland; holds an engineering degree from Oxford and worked as such for many years before staring his succesful gun business.
Regards,
Peter
I have a response from the manufacturer, Peter Jackson: Our triggers are typically set-up with about 60% on the first stage and 40% on the second stage - so if the trigger is set to lift 1 kg, the user will apply 600 g to complete the first pull travel, and a further 400 g to fire the trigger. Variation of 60/40 is possible.
In response to can the final pull weight be less than the weight needed to complete the first stage movement? - the answer is no, that would be against the laws of physics..
Peter Jackson owns Jackson Rifles, Scotland; holds an engineering degree from Oxford and worked as such for many years before staring his succesful gun business.
Regards,
Peter
