New to me DWM 416 Taylor built by Lew Bates

Slickshooter

Slickshooter

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Location
6-9 BC
New to me Mauser DWM 1908 Brazilian action in 416 Taylor. Blackburn bottom metal, three leaf express rear sight. Soldered barrel sling stud, 3 position model 70 style safety, tally bases and rings. Stock is American black walnut with nice grain and straight through the wrist, Ebony fore end tip, rear Tally style sling stud, 2 screw fisher grip cap, shadowline cheekpiece, cross bolt recoil lug, fine wrap around checkering still feels new, and leather recoil pad. Rifle is in excellent condition and was completely built by the late Lew Bates of BC Canada.
I have dies, IMR 3031 and 4064 powder, 350gr Speer HotCor and 400gr Woodleigh’s, 37 proper headstamped brass, 30 fireformed random stuff and 40 more proper brass being imported from the States and actually found an additional 40 Bertram proper brass up here. Really looking forward to this one. Any suggestions on powders and loads are appreciated. Anyone else with a Lew Bates build?
CheersIMG_3223.jpegIMG_3226.jpeg
 

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Very nice!
Lew was a casual acquaintance and made very nice stocks! (I finally have a rifle that was stocked by him; also very nice!)

My 416 Taylor was built on a LH Ruger M77 Mk II built by Rocky Mountain Rifles, with a 22" Bevan King barrel, in a Wenig laminated stock..
I have only shot 350 gr TSX bullets in it so far with 69.0 Re-15. It is producing 0.4" groups at 100 yards at 2415 fps. I am 3 gr from max, but with this accuracy haven't felt the need to push it faster. (Can break 2500 fps with the max load.)
A stiffer load is possible with the 350 gr Hot Cor with Re-19 for a little more velocity.
I have Quality Cartridge, properly head stamped brass for this rifle.

Unfortunately, I have not looked up load data with either 3031 or 4064.

My first rifle in 416 Taylor was a RH Ruger M77 Mk II built by Ralf Martini, in a Bell & Carlson synthetic stock, I think it had a 22" Douglas barrel, if memory serves, and it shot the 350 gr Mag Tips and 325 gr X bullets into cloverleaf groups at 100 yards with open sights. Unfortunately, I did not have a chrony back then so do not know the velocity, and no longer have the data for my loads for that rifle.
 
4fifty8 said:
Woodleigh reloading manual lists .416 Taylor load data. Performance about the same as .416 Ruger which has about 5% more case capacity. Re15 works good in my .416 Ruger.
Click to expand...
Roger that, I can’t get Re15 and haven’t seen it for a long time up here unfortunately. Otherwise I’d try it but I do have other powders that should work as well.
BlackRam said:
Very nice!
Lew was a casual acquaintance and made very nice stocks! (I finally have a rifle that was stocked by him; also very nice!)

My 416 Taylor was built on a LH Ruger M77 Mk II built by Rocky Mountain Rifles, with a 22" Bevan King barrel, in a Wenig laminated stock..
I have only shot 350 gr TSX bullets in it so far with 69.0 Re-15. It is producing 0.4" groups at 100 yards at 2415 fps. I am 3 gr from max, but with this accuracy haven't felt the need to push it faster. (Can break 2500 fps with the max load.)
A stiffer load is possible with the 350 gr Hot Cor with Re-19 for a little more velocity.
I have Quality Cartridge, properly head stamped brass for this rifle.

Unfortunately, I have not looked up load data with either 3031 or 4064.

My first rifle in 416 Taylor was a RH Ruger M77 Mk II built by Ralf Martini, in a Bell & Carlson synthetic stock, I think it had a 22" Douglas barrel, if memory serves, and it shot the 350 gr Mag Tips and 325 gr X bullets into cloverleaf groups at 100 yards with open sights. Unfortunately, I did not have a chrony back then so do not know the velocity, and no longer have the data for my loads for that rifle.
Click to expand...
Those sound like nice rifles for sure, too bad the bolt is on the wrong side of your current one, otherwise it may have shot better lol. Kidding of course, and that’s plenty of velocity for sure. I don’t need a speed demon, if I get in the mid 2300’s I’m good with that. It’s a DG rifle that I don’t intend to shoot at anything over 100 yards with it.
I found a decent amount of load data for it from Handloader magazine, African Dangerous Game cartridges book as well as African Hunting forum.
Have you taken yours to Africa?
 
Slickshooter said:
Roger that, I can’t get Re15 and haven’t seen it for a long time up here unfortunately. Otherwise I’d try it but I do have other powders that should work as well.

Those sound like nice rifles for sure, too bad the bolt is on the wrong side of your current one, otherwise it may have shot better lol. Kidding of course, and that’s plenty of velocity for sure. I don’t need a speed demon, if I get in the mid 2300’s I’m good with that. It’s a DG rifle that I don’t intend to shoot at anything over 100 yards with it.
I found a decent amount of load data for it from Handloader magazine, African Dangerous Game cartridges book as well as African Hunting forum.
Have you taken yours to Africa?
Click to expand...
No, I have not, as our two trips have been for just plains game so far. (And we used the outfitters firearms for them, as I didn't quite get all the right travel documents for the Canadian permits on the first trip, and just chose to forego the extra hassle on the second trip.)
I did get to see a large cape buffalo bull up close (inside 50 yards) on this last trip, (was an awesome beast!) and would like to use the 416 on one of them!

I know the 400gr is probably the better choice, but have a good load with the 350 gr, and want to develop the load for the same weight solid for the same point of impact. So I do not have to re-zero the scope and sights, as I will only use be using the 350 grainers here at home for bison. And it is manageable recoil at this performance level. (46.8 ft lbs of recoil in my scoped rifle weighing 9 lbs 10 oz.) By adding 3 gr of powder, I would jump up to 50.3 ft lbs of recoil energy, for the 2503 fps...and the energy of the bullet at the muzzle would go from 4532 to 4870 ft lbs. At 100 yards the retained energy would be 3662 for the current load, and 4014 ft lbs for the hotter load.

I would need to talk to the PH and more experienced hunters of cape buffalo, to see what their thoughts would be on the retained energy for the cape buffalo, before deciding it is worth trying the hotter load, and a matching solid. And go back to reread Boddington's books (African Rifles) to see his remarks on energy of the 416s on DG...
 
BlackRam said:
No, I have not, as our two trips have been for just plains game so far. (And we used the outfitters firearms for them, as I didn't quite get all the right travel documents for the Canadian permits on the first trip, and just chose to forego the extra hassle on the second trip.)
I did get to see a large cape buffalo bull up close (inside 50 yards) on this last trip, (was an awesome beast!) and would like to use the 416 on one of them!

I know the 400gr is probably the better choice, but have a good load with the 350 gr, and want to develop the load for the same weight solid for the same point of impact. So I do not have to re-zero the scope and sights, as I will only use be using the 350 grainers here at home for bison. And it is manageable recoil at this performance level. (46.8 ft lbs of recoil in my scoped rifle weighing 9 lbs 10 oz.) By adding 3 gr of powder, I would jump up to 50.3 ft lbs of recoil energy, for the 2503 fps...and the energy of the bullet at the muzzle would go from 4532 to 4870 ft lbs. At 100 yards the retained energy would be 3662 for the current load, and 4014 ft lbs for the hotter load.

I would need to talk to the PH and more experienced hunters of cape buffalo, to see what their thoughts would be on the retained energy for the cape buffalo, before deciding it is worth trying the hotter load, and a matching solid. And go back to reread Boddington's books (African Rifles) to see his remarks on energy of the 416s on DG...
Click to expand...
From my experience with Mbogo and hippo, reading Kevin Robertsons book and speaking with many PH’s, if a guy gets around 2300fps with a premium 400gr bullet your golden. As you know excessive speed is not needed or wanted for these critters. I killed two buff and a dry land hippo with a 416 Rigby with 400gr TBBC all inside about 60 yards. Hell, some of those older lower 400 caliber cartridges barely reached 2100fps with 400 grainers and did the job just fine for many years. Depends on the situation I suppose, maybe like hunting more open spaces or tight bush (where I was) where shots at DG are close quarters and needed to be done promptly.
 
Slickshooter said:
From my experience with Mbogo and hippo, reading Kevin Robertsons book and speaking with many PH’s, if a guy gets around 2300fps with a premium 400gr bullet your golden. As you know excessive speed is not needed or wanted for these critters. I killed two buff and a dry land hippo with a 416 Rigby with 400gr TBBC all inside about 60 yards. Hell, some of those older lower 400 caliber cartridges barely reached 2100fps with 400 grainers and did the job just fine for many years. Depends on the situation I suppose, maybe like hunting more open spaces or tight bush (where I was) where shots at DG are close quarters and needed to be done promptly.
Click to expand...
Thoughts on the same velocity with the lighter 350 gr bullet?
I think It should be fine...but as I have not taken a cape buff yet...but as always, bullet placement is key...

When I was having shoulder issues in the early 2000's, and was planning my build of a 375 cal rifle for when it got better, I originally planned on a 375 Wby, as I had liked shooting a friend's 375 H&H AI, and this would result in a factory loaded round of similar performance.
I then learned about the 376 Steyr, and that this was based on the performance of downloaded 375 H&H ammo used by many PHs for softs on cape buffalo for better penetration. Due to the shoulder issue, the idea of less powder for the same performance with the Steyr, and the ability to use a regular long action, was appealing, so I went this route.
The scoped rifle (LH Ruger M77 Mk II with a Wenig laminated FS stock, and a 21" King barrel, with banded NECG front sight and rear peep) weighs 10 lbs 7 oz with a magazine full of cartridges, and produces just under 30 ft lbs of recoil with a 260 gr AccuBond loaded with 61 gr of H335, producing 2632 fps and 3999 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle. It produces 3-shot 0.535" groups at 100 yards. The LimbSaver recoil tames felt recoil, even off the bench, where 60 rounds in an afternoon does not bother the shoulder.
Retained velocity and energy at 100 yards is 2447 fps and 3457 ft lbs.
To date, it has performed well on a bull and a cow bison, and a 6x6 elk.
Would be fun to also use on a cape buffalo and eland!

But I want to use the 416 Taylor still, as it has not yet taken game.
 
I’ve read that some guys really like the Barnes 350 for Buffalo but I don’t have any experience. The thoughts of many including my PH in the Selous was that hunting buffalo is best done with heavy, forward weighted bullets 2200-2400fps and not light faster rear weighted bullets. When I asked about the 375 for buffalo they would kind of shrug, drop their chin down and say yeah. But when I mentioned I also had a 416, they immediately said “Bring the 416”. So, I did what they said. Those buff are serious business and I’m glad I had a 416.
Man, you gotta test that Taylor out on some of your Bison!
 
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