Question About WWII Enfields Usage

PoiluRifleman

PoiluRifleman

Member
EE Expired
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Location
Surrey, BC
Hello fellow, can you tell me in what theatre and units were the Enfield No.1 MkIII and No.4 MkI used? I just watched a few documentaries and noticed that during the North African and Italian campaign, they all used No.1 MkIIIs and I did not see a single British soldier with a No.4 MkI. I also noticed in the European campaign (1944 on) they are all armed with No.4s and not MkIIIs. Can anyone give me a more detailed info on these? Also can you please link/cite your sources, thank you!
 
No. 4s were not issued in quantity until there was a sufficient supply built up to allow widespread issue. The changeover started in late '42, accelerated in '43, IIRC.
Keep in mind that NZ and Australian forces stayed with the SMLE.
Also keep in mind that the clips used in documentaries may not be accurate from the standpoint of when and where the film was taken.
 
What tiriaq said...

Even though I believe the No.4 was approved as a pattern in 1939, none were manufactured until 1941... so, by the time they actually got to theatre....

And yes, the Australians never made use of the No.4, excepting a few Air Force units, and I don't think the New Zealanders adopted the No.4 until post WWII, when we sold 'em a whack of Canadian made rifles.

Neal
 
Also keep in mind that the clips used in documentaries may not be accurate from the standpoint of when and where the film was taken.
Click to expand...

Ditto on that. Quite often when editing stock footage one needs a clip that doesn't exist so one that fits what is needed gets inserted. One of the best examples is that when you see most documentaries about Dieppe they use a lot of Juno beach & training footage.
 
And there is a pic of British troops in North Aftica with P14's as well as one of commandos in a landing craft after Dunkirk where half had smle's and half had P14's

The Home guard got the M1917's as resupplying them with ammo was not critical.
 
Enfields

My father was with the Hastings Prince Edward Regiment (Hasty P's) in the Italian campaign. He recalls receiving his first No.4 LB in early '43 while still in England. He prefered the MKIII and swapped the No.4 for a Brit owned MKIII he found. Dad carried the MKIII and a Thompson until December '44 before being sent home on the tri-wound scheme. Dad gave the MKIII to his replacement. Poor chap was KIA two weeks later. Still bothers my father to this day.
That recent Dieppe drama had our Canadian boys carrying No.4's which I dont think is correct.
 
Cdn. troops at Dieppe used Stens, this was the first use of Stens in combat in Europe. The ones captured were the first the Germans had seen and they were not impressed. Stens went into production during the first quarter of '41, so there was quite a lag between manufacture and first use in action.
A vet. I know preferred a SMLE to the No. 4, was not impressed when the changeover came.
 
Experience, I imagine. It's what they were used to, and it was a well thought-of rifle. Why give up your SMLE for an unproven No.4? Particularly since the No.4 doesn't tend to be as nicely made and finished.
 
But by the end of the war those same troops (1st & 5th Divisions) had arrived in Europe and re-armed with the No.4. My grandfather was one of them.
 
I know, just wondering whether or not they had long branchs by then.

BTW, I do not belive that the #5's were used out side of Burma/India theatre! Anyone confirm this?
 
No. 5s were issued to Brit. troops in Palestine after WW2. They were also used in Kenya during the Maumau uprising.
I think some soldiers were used to, and preferred, open sights.
As far as I know, during WW2 in Europe rifles were issued from available stores. I do not know if Cdn. troops in the UK or continental Europe would have received LB rifles. I suspect they got what was available. Photos of Cdn. snipers in Europe with identifiable No. 4s all show Mk. I rifles, not MK. I*s. By the same token, units going overseas could have taken LB rifles with them.
 
Thank you for the wealth of information! I'm wondering too, besides the finishing touch, why do soldiers prefer the earlier SMLE over the No.4 Enfields? Is it because the latter got a heavier barrel... or...?
 
PoiluRifleman said:
Thank you for the wealth of information! I'm wondering too, besides the finishing touch, why do soldiers prefer the earlier SMLE over the No.4 Enfields? Is it because the latter got a heavier barrel... or...?
Click to expand...

I read something somewhere about how the SMLE equipped soldiers had received "musketry training"...possibly refering to using the volley sights for indirect fire?

Not sure on that but I think the No 4 couldn't do some of the things they had been trained to do with the SMLE.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom