Experienced pistol/rifle reloader, mulling the idea of shotshell reloading... would appreciate some insights

Munkey1973

Munkey1973

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I began about 20 years ago by reloading with progressive press, high-volume, pistol (45 ACP & 9 mm).

Then about 10 years ago sold all that pistol gear, and transitioned into single stage, precision rifle reloading for F-Class.
My annual membership and match fees didn't change over 10 years, BUT gasoline.... powder (Varget).... projectiles (Sierras & Berger), and even BR4 primers became way too rich for my blood. Like, just beyond f##king ridiculous inflation for quality target rifle reloading components in even past 5 years.

So, I sold the F-Class gun & gear, all the reloading equipment & components for this past spring and used some of the proceeds to buy a mid/high end, Italian-made over/under shotgun that I can more easily afford to shoot about 125 to 200 factory rounds a month within a 20-minute drive.

I don't hunt...skeet/trap/sporting clays only.

Anyhow, I would greatly appreciate some insights into potentially reloading for shotshells...some general, high-level questions here:

1) Does reloading shotshell reloading have the same "hording mentality" as precision rifle reloading?
Certain precision rifle components (ex. Varget, Sierra SMK 200s, Berger 185 Jugs) would go out of stock. Then they come back into stock, followed by massive panic buying and bidding up the price. A few people buy it all up and its out of stock again...do quality powders for shotshell reloading exhibit this type of market behavior ?
Can I get what I need when I need it for shotshell reloading without seeing extreme "dry seasons" and "price gouging"? Are second and third place powders fairly good alternatives to first place powders ?

2) IMO and experience, neck sizing only for RIFLE is a bad idea. If I were to fireform factory SHOTGUN shells in my over/under, would I ever have to re-size my shells?
I am looking at 2 presses: ... Lee Load All (cheap and complete) ... MEC 600 (or maybe a 650). I like the Lee in that it will give you the basics of what you need (which includes re-sizing).... But I am leaning more towards my mantra of "buy once, cry once" and wanting to go MEC for utmost of durability/quality and resale value. But it doesn't seem like re-sizing is an integrated step on the MEC 600/650 setups. Seems with the MECs you have to have to resize hulls on a separate tool. Is shell re-sizing only necessary for pump and semi-auto actions, and not a necessary step for over/under guns?

Feel free to share any other insights, and/or pitfalls to avoid.
Thanks in advance.
 
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There definitely can be a scarcity of components for shotshell reloading too. I try and keep 1-2 years worth of them on hand at a time, and always looking and taking deals when I find them.

Pass on the Lee Load All, they aren't very good. The MEC 600 would be the bare minimum you should go with. Lots of used ones available that will work fine. You can resize on the 600, they have a re size ring on station 1, where you deprime so you can't avoid it anyways.

If you're just looking at reloading 12ga you might want to calculate what your cost per box is going to be and whether it's worth it to you or not.
 
You wont save money reloading 12ga unless you have a large stash of lead and powder somewhere
Wait for a good deal on bulk ammo. Stock up when you can.
I still load 2.5" 12ga for my vintage guns. I use lee load all 2 for 12 ga. I've wore 5 out but thats over 20 years. They load good ammo. I prefer it over my mec 600 Jr.
Yes resizing is worth it. If you dont you will eventually have issues trying to close the gun. Tge pressure of loading can sometimes flare out the head and cause issues in some guns.
 
Gatehouse said:
Less than a case of target shells per month? Reloading would be a waste of time and money.
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I like the performance of the Winchester AA line. They have a reduced recoil load, and a stiff 1,300 fps load to touch clay that is out there... both current at $23 box.. if I assume a cost of $500 for reloading equipment, then I would recover the cost of the press in a few seasons.


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Hoarding would definitely be a thing.
Minimizing cost per round and fear of running out dictates large purchase volumes.
But I don’t see where you’ll save any money or make better ammunition than what you can just buy.
For me freight was the deciding factor that put it over the top.
If you live close to a distributor where you can pick all the components up then you might have a different calculation but for me it is way cheaper just to buy it (not that it’s cheap anymore).
 
XLNC said:
There definitely can be a scarcity of components for shotshell reloading too. I try and keep 1-2 years worth of them on hand at a time, and always looking and taking deals when I find them.

Pass on the Lee Load All, they aren't very good. The MEC 600 would be the bare minimum you should go with. Lots of used ones available that will work fine. You can resize on the 600, they have a re size ring on station 1, where you deprime so you can't avoid it anyways.

If you're just looking at reloading 12ga you might want to calculate what your cost per box is going to be and whether it's worth it to you or not.
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Did some math on cost of reloading versus my current cost of factory loads a couple days ago (and posted just now see #6).

Thanks for sharing, I didn't realize the Mec 600 did re-sizing. Is there any issues I should watch for if I were to shop for a used 600 or 650?
 
What's your time worth? Challenger makes a light 7/8 Oz load and federal has a sporting line which are both cheaper than AA. AA is one of the most expensive shells. You did not factor is hulls into your math. They can be had for free in some clubs. If not they must be replaced every so often
 
Munkey1973 said:
Did some math on cost of reloading versus my current cost of factory loads a couple days ago (and posted just now see #6).

Thanks for sharing, I didn't realize the Mec 600 did re-sizing. Is there any issues I should watch for if I were to shop for a used 600 or 650?
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I'm not super familiar with the MEC, I just know they are a much better reloader than the LLA. Maybe another MEC user here can give you advice on used ones.

I think your pricing calculatuon has costs that look a little high. You might be able to find some better pricing out there. But it depends where you live and what you have access to.

If you're using Eagle shot, your comparison is more to the cheaper shells like Challenger, Top Gun, or Super Target though, you aren't making a comparative shell to AAs that have hard, quality shot.
 
For as long as I can remember I always said I would never load shotshells , have enough hobbies and equipment. Long story short, bought a 28ga hammer sxs so had to get into loading. Bought a used MEC 600 and started loading. That was about 5 years ago. This is my smokeless shotshell loading station today. I load for .410, 28ga, 20ga, 16ga and 12ga. I like the MEC loaders, they have a much better priming system that the P-W loaders IMO. The only reason I load 12 is that the loader was given to me and I make my own shot and hulls are free so cost is not too bad.IMG_3399.jpeg P.S., the white labels on the powder bottles note the powder and charge for each gauge.
 
Locally, the trap shooters will buy their shells in bulk through a club group purchase. From what I have heard (I don't shoot any shotguns now), the cost of factory shells negates any cost savings for them. Finding shot locally is near impossible so there is alot of extra cost is sourcing and shipping.

I did try reloading shotshells back in the day... gave up and just bought the bulk box of 125 shells from walmart or can tire. The 7.5 and 8 shot patterned as well as anything I ever made.. but it did kick more vs my reduced loads.

YMMV

Jerry
 
Historically shotshell components were reliably available and there was no need to hoard. But even before COVID that began to change. Red Dot, which was the single most common 12ga target powder for almost 100 years, stopped being imported. Currently most powder makers are paying little attention to the shotshell market, Winchester WST and Ramshot Competition are the only ones I ever see available, and the WST is $100/lb. You probably won't be able to find the Clays you've budgeted around. Meanwhile, the price of shot tripled over about 10 years. I now completely agree that unless you are making your own shot, loading 12ga target loads makes no sense. As a consequence few people load anymore, and as a consequence of that few retailers stock components.

A further consequence is that the going rate for second hand shotshell presses in 12ga has plummeted. A P-W 375 press is over $1,000 to buy new, but I picked one up at auction last year for less than $50. A notable exception to this is the MEC 600. It seems to be the only press that anyone wants and they still fetch ~$150-200+ in good shape. Speaking of MEC, I've looked at the 650 and I would pass, because as you say it does not incorporate resizing. If you want a progressive I would step up to the MEC Grabber 8576.

Sub-gauge presses are more in demand: the pricing for factory loads is higher, but a reloader will use less powder and shot to reload them, making the economics much more attractive.
 
Our club brings in reloading components in bulk as well, usually with our clay target order. With freight cost negligible it makes reloading costs a lot cheaper, too.

These would be my costs per box for my reloads, using current year pricing for shot, powder, primers and wads. including taxes.

12ga 1 oz - $11.40/ box
12ga 7/8 oz - $10.70/box
20ga 7/8 oz - $11.80/box
28ga 3/4 oz - $10.60/box
410 1/2 oz - $10.00/box
 
XLNC said:
Our club brings in reloading components in bulk as well, usually with our clay target order. With freight cost negligible it makes reloading costs a lot cheaper, too.

These would be my costs per box for my reloads, using current year pricing for shot, powder, primers and wads. including taxes.

12ga 1 oz - $11.40/ box
12ga 7/8 oz - $10.70/box
20ga 7/8 oz - $11.80/box
28ga 3/4 oz - $10.60/box
410 1/2 oz - $10.00/box
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Holly crap!...that is unreal. My post #6 compared current Winchester AA to an inflated/conservative estimate of reloading...BEFORE taxes/shipping.


Yeah, when I was in F-Class, a few of us at the Northstar Range would pool orders for components together and save as well.

I should really look into getting a membership at Regina Trap and Skeet club next season
 
XLNC said:
12ga 1 oz - $11.40/ box
12ga 7/8 oz - $10.70/box
20ga 7/8 oz - $11.80/box
28ga 3/4 oz - $10.60/box
410 1/2 oz - $10.00/box
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Are you sure about these numbers? Shot is the most expensive component, so why does your 1/2oz .410 save only $1.40 compared to a 1oz 12ga? And why would a 7/8oz 20ga cost more than a 1oz 12ga? There is less shot, and the wad cost should be the same. It will use a different powder, but they are mostly priced similarly.
 
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