bcbravo2zero
CGN Regular
Nice workThat’s pretty impressive given that it’s not exactly a match trigger or barrel you’re working with
The IWI Carmel: Initial Thoughts and Observations **Range Report added on post #48**
- Thread starter Master-G
- Start date
Nice workThat’s pretty impressive given that it’s not exactly a match trigger or barrel you’re working with
bcbravo2zero
CGN Regular
It’s silly
This gun, that you can actually buy, sounds reasonably reliable & accurate, and has AR’ish ergos: awesome
The only truly “battle proven” platform I've owned is my AR15…a super slick competition rig made up of high end bits & pieces that no sane soldier would ever consider taking into battle
But it tends to trigger dumb, estrogen filled Liberals (ie/all of them)
Hey, will you fill us in on what specifically failed? Lots of us have these rifles on order and it would be beneficial to know the failure points. Thanks!
I'm also curious because as far as I know, the IDF has been moving its infantry from the Tavor back to AR-15-type rifles, and the Gaza war sped that up because of rifle shortages. But the Tavor isn’t discontinued. It’s being shifted to support units and is still made and sold. The Carmel was never an IDF rifle: it started as a 7.62×39 concept for foreign military contracts, wasn’t adopted, and was shelved. IWI US later revived and redesigned it in 5.56 for the civilian market.
IchBinEinSniper
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brockvegas
Review: IWI Carmel
by- AMERICAN RIFLEMAN STAFF
NEWS, SEMI-AUTO RIFLES
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Photos by Forrest MacCormack.
The government-run Israel Military Industry (IMI), famed maker of the Uzi submachine gun, was privatized in 2005 and its small-arms manufacturing division spun off as Israel Weapons Industry (IWI). IWI took a free-market approach to its products, updating classic IMI products, like the Uzi, Galil rifle and Jericho pistol, as well as introducing brand-new designs such as the Tavor TS12 shotgun and Masada pistol. Its latest clean-slate offering is the Carmel (following the company’s convention of naming products after geographic locations in Israel), a modular, durable and thoroughly modern sporting rifle.
Introduced in 2019 to the international military market, the Carmel fits the mold of the contemporary service rifle, which the company defines as “adaptive, adjustable, ambidextrous.” A descendant of ArmaLite’s AR-18 (and IWI’s own Tavor rifles), it uses a multi-lug rotating bolt housed in a square carrier and is operated by a short-stroke gas-piston system. Made of steel, aluminum alloy and polymer, it is customizable for user fit and optimized for modern sighting systems and accessories, such as suppressors. The modular nature of the design means it would be easier to adapt the Carmel to other cartridges and even magazine platforms, though none are offered at this time.
The modular IWI Carmel rifle can be completely fieldstripped without the assistance of tools, and the two-position gas regulator is adjustable using a .223 Rem. cartridge.
In 2013, IWI opened its own U.S. subsidiary. This allowed the company to import Israeli-made firearm components and assemble them into complete firearms with American-made parts. Such is the case with the Carmel, which was brought to the U.S. market as a semi-automatic rifle last year. At the rifle’s core is a polymer “upper,” the serialized receiver proper, which features steel inserts and that houses the aforementioned operating system. A spring-loaded dustcover closes the ejection port. A cold-hammer-forged barrel with a chrome-lined bore is free-floated within the removable fore-end. The gas system is also housed within the handguard, with a two-position, adjustable gas regulator that can be switched between “regular” and “suppressed” settings.
Adjustments can be made to both the stock’s length of pull and comb height, allowing it to accommodate a larger variety of shooters and optics.
Fire-control components are housed within a polymer “lower” housing. Controls, including the safety, magazine release and bolt catch are placed on both sides of the rifle for full ambidexterity. The safety has a 45-degree arc to switch between fire and safe positions (indicated by pictogram “bullets” or “no bullets” markings). The charging handle is non-reciprocating and can be switched to the right or left side easily without disassembling the rifle. Making use of standard AR-15/STANAG magazines, the rifle is supplied with one 30-round Magpul PMAG.
The Carmel’s buttstock telescopes to adjust length of pull at six different positions, and an adjustable cheekpiece allows the shooter to match his or her line of sight to the height of the optic being used. To make the rifle more compact for stowage, the stock folds to the right side of the rifle, but at an angle that doesn’t block the ejection port. The rifle can be fired with the stock folded, if its dustcover is already open.
The Carmel’s stock can be folded along the right side of the carbine—at an angle that doesn’t block the ejection port—allowing firing from the folded position.
Both QD swivel sockets and hook-type sling-attachment points are incorporated into the buttstock and receiver. The fore-end is aluminum with M-Lok slots for mounting accessories. No sights are supplied, but a Picatinny rail section runs the length of the upper receiver and handguard. The pistol grip is removable and is AR-15-compatible, and the rifle comes with a B5 Systems Type 23 P-Grip installed.
With the rifle fitted with a Leupold Patrol 6HD scope, we performed formal accuracy testing on the range. Accuracy averaged just under 2" for five-shot groups at 100 yards. A two-stage trigger that broke cleanly at just under 6 lbs. of pressure aided accurate shooting. The rifle’s 8-lb., 8-oz., weight and proprietary muzzle device (the muzzle has conventional 1/2x28 TPI threads) made 5.56 NATO particularly soft shooting, and the case deflector allowed for comfortable left-handed use. Reliability was 100 percent, and all testing was done unsuppressed with the gas regulator in the “regular” position. Our testing regime pales in comparison to the rigors that IWI put the Carmel through during development; the company YouTube channel has a series of videos showing the rifle passing its mud, sand, water and freezing-temperature tests with flying colors.
Designed to be low maintenance, the Carmel fieldstrips easily. With the stock folded, pulling the locking pins at the rear of the receiver allows the bolt carrier group to be removed. Removing another pin allows the lower housing to be removed from the receiver. The gas regulator and piston can be removed to the front with the handguard in place. All these actions, and stripping the bolt carrier group, can be accomplished without tools. The short-stroke gas system keeps the inside of the receiver clean, with the internals of the Carmel noticeably less dirty than a typical direct-impingement gas-operated firearm after our testing.
Priced at $1,799, the Carmel is more expensive than a run-of-the-mill modern sporting rifle, but its features and pedigree justify the extra expense. It is another example of IWI building on its heritage while also meeting the demands of today’s market.
IchBinEinSniper
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brockvegas
^^^ I’ll take those groups if our NR barrel performs similarly…
IchBinEinSniper
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brockvegas
CFP message…perhaps shipping to me shortly now.
THE_SASQUATCH
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- The Forest
Thank you.
Was hoping to swap to a MIAD but didn’t know if it would 100% fit
Fingers crossed the NR’s start shipping Monday
Just came back from the range and had a chance to run about 15 different factory loads through the NR 18.5" Carmel. Initial observations is that (most likely because of the 1:7 twist) the gun favors lighter bullets, however couple of 70+ grain loads produced decent results. I attach all the data i gathered here for anyone who finds it useful. All groups were shot at 95 yards. I didn't have a lot of time, so couldn't re-zero the scope for every load so don't mind some POI shifts. Shot of a MDT bipod with a support bag at the back. Barrel gets hot pretty fast , and as i mentioned i had limited time, so take those results with a grain of salt as well. Session took about 1 hour and 45 minutes total including hanging/swapping targets etc. All velocities were measured with Garmin C2. My goal was to shoot 2 groups of each load i had, but sometimes it turned out i only had 5 or 7 bullets in a box so this is the reason some loads have only one group.
Stand by for pictures, trying to get them in high res so they are actually readable
Stand by for pictures, trying to get them in high res so they are actually readable
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They’re some pretty good groups! Interesting that the rifle preferred some of the lighter-weight bullets, although it was no slouch with some of the heavier weights too. Mine also preferred S&B ammo best, although I only tried the 69 gr rounds.
Great thread. I just got mine today and have it kitted out to my liking, vestiges of pre-2024 when I had another fun IWI product.
Master-G, thanks for the original review and the exceptional photos - I thought they were from a magazine or manufacture stock photos - excellent job, thanks.
Thanks to you (I didn't read the manual yet since it requires QR code reading and I can't look at my phone for things like manuals), I saw your suggestion with moving the charging handle over to the other side - I just had to lock the bolt back before moving the handle to that middle spot (I tried it while pulling the bolt back and that just strained my arms - once I locked the bolt back, it was easy to move it upwards and across). That one is a game changer, so far. I haven't shot it yet, but the charging handle is the only thing so far I am not crazy about - partly because I have a weak left side arm but I also don't like the feel of it - it's too bad it's not a rounded X95 type that seemed more comfortable in the hands.
Master-G, thanks for the original review and the exceptional photos - I thought they were from a magazine or manufacture stock photos - excellent job, thanks.
Thanks to you (I didn't read the manual yet since it requires QR code reading and I can't look at my phone for things like manuals), I saw your suggestion with moving the charging handle over to the other side - I just had to lock the bolt back before moving the handle to that middle spot (I tried it while pulling the bolt back and that just strained my arms - once I locked the bolt back, it was easy to move it upwards and across). That one is a game changer, so far. I haven't shot it yet, but the charging handle is the only thing so far I am not crazy about - partly because I have a weak left side arm but I also don't like the feel of it - it's too bad it's not a rounded X95 type that seemed more comfortable in the hands.
