Interesting and dangerous barrel failure. Mystery Solved!, sort of. (last page)

I have seen radiographs of rifle and revolver barrels/actions that were taken for fun and ended up showing something that took the joy out of the gun!
 
I think at least some tubing is made by extruding white hot flat bar through a die and forming it into a tube and at the same time fusing the seam. I think in other cases the seam may be arc welded after the tube is formed. Either way, I suspect it occasionally happens that the seam fails to become fused for various reasons. I think that is what happened to this barrel. I don't think there was any pressure spike, I think the seam just started opening and kept on running, probably from the breach forward.
Pressure spikes would have left bulges at the point of origin, I think. I also think that because the guns are not proof tested but sold more or less as wall hangers, these sort of flaws can slip by.
There is at least one american barrel maker who uses DOM tubing which is tubing which is extruded as a tube through a die and with a mandrel pulled through the bore at the same time. I know he has tested his barrels with massive charges and had no failures. And lest people say that tubing should never be used, I would point out that Snider barrels and perhaps percussion Enfields as well were made from essentially rolled tubing. Started with a tube about 6" long and 3" diameter with a 1/2" hole, I believe" and this was run through a series of rollers to become a contoured tube 39" ready for final boring and rifling.

cheers mooncoon
 
I've seen this a dozen times in the last few years. There is no air gap or barrel block. These guns are imported as wall hangers! Re-enacters are buying them, cause they are cheap. I serviced one of these, five or six years ago. Touch hole, lightened all the springs. $400.00 later, it was safe for re-enactment. I will not have another on my bench!!!! These replicas come out of India and Pakistan and are sold out of Nova Scotia for about $600.00 Cn. Some of them........take off the barrel and look down the bore, while pointed at a light. Some read 'G.E. 60 watts'.
My barrels are Anti Aircraft surplus. I have about 280 left.

Regards
Trapline.ca
 
seamless tube AKA D.O.M (drawn over mandrel) is nothing more then regular old E.R.W (electronic resistance welded) pipe or tube that has had a mandrel pulled thru it to flatten out the seam caused by the resistance weld...

if the resistance weld has flaw's such as mill scale contamination then it leave's a void in the center of the seam... once you draw the mandrel thru the red hot tube and true the I.D it's impossible to see a flaw inside of the (newly renamed) DOM tube, however it is highly possible to dye/penatrent test a non finished DOM tube on it's exterior provided it's been properly cleaned and is free of any surface sealant's... a simple x-ray test would spot any flaw's in the weld as well.....


original source of the base material can be to blame as well... 3rd world steel is very popular and cheap to buy but it's foundary quality is lacking, i personally have dealt with plate, flatbar, tube from africa and india that was extreamly varying in quality.... i had a 1/2" punch die in a 90 Ton Pirrana ironworker explode due to a hard spot in 3/8" flat bar... 1/4" and 1/2" plate that set me into a fit putting shim's under die's to get a smooth bend... ERW tube that would hairline crack when i cut it in a chop saw etc etc etc....

bottom line is you should never pull a trigger unless a barrel has been proof tested or properly inspected... there is far too great of a chance that a flash hole has been drilled on the hidden seam of DOM tube further weakening a possibly flawed weld or maybe your perticular tube has a hard spot in it from a wayward piece of AR or QT plate that made it into the crucible and dident dissolve compleatly?

when you have to drill your own flash hole and harden your own frizzen that would be a good indication you bought a wall hanger not a boom stick....
 
mooncoon said:
It looks to me as if the barrel split along a weld seam. Lucky the plug did not come out and go through the shooters head.

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...

I'll ditto that opinion

Gonna make me flinch the next few times I pull up the PH musketoon. Lucky nobody got permenantly taken out
 
How about the rest of you fellows with third world replicas, anybody having second thoughts?
I ordered one earlier this year to see what the hype was all about. A mechanical failure in the lock within 5 minutes of opening the package and the instructions to 'PROOF WITH 60 GRAINS AND A SINGLE BALL???' was enough for me. I sent it back.
 
I have two. One about five years, carbine, and the other,Third Pattern, two years. I have shot the Loyalist carbine alot, even with a ball and ramrod once(but that is another story), and no problems. The Third Pattern is from MH and is used only to fire blanks, 50 grs bp and paper. YMMV
 
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Steppenwolf said:
Here is the pdf of the lab results from the much talked about burst musket.

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/special/HPWhiteReportWithPersonalInfoBlocked.pdf
Click to expand...



My long land was bought as a kit from loyalist, and man its a FANTASTIC musket!!
My piedersoli sucks compared to it.

I have shot it 100 grains ffg and ball ALOT tons of shot and untold amounts of blanks.

Its a great shooting smoothie.

Whenever I hear folk say the piedersoli muskets are better then the loyalist ones I just show them my long land and that conversation ends there.

I have compared my musket to the crazy expensive ones and mine still shoots just as good, and infact looks better then most.

I love that the lab report came out the naysayers now have cold hard facts to silence them.

The barells are just as good as any out there, but like ANY gun its usually the loose nut behind the stock that makes it unsafe.

From what I have learned from a few custom builders alot of the "QUALITY" barells are made in bloody china. The main difference I have found between the customs and the others is the lock tuning stock design /wood, and the hand fitting.

I have shot alot of flint locks -LIVE - not just blanks, Loyalist gets some good materials I have never received one of their complete guns, just kits and they have all proved their mettle.

I would never again buy a italian flintlock- waste of cash in my opinion. I have seen their percussion guns and their really good shooters, the flintlocks, are just cheap to my hand.

After maybe another 80 or so hours of reworking the piedersoli lock "after many hours working its breach" I might have a gun that might shoot as good as my long land MIGHT, but it wont be the slightest bit safer.

That failed gun was inspected by a very reputable company experienced in firearms, and that gents report speaks volumes.

Black powder arms must be strictly maintained not just for function..But as the picture proves FOR SAFETY.
They are not like the new fangled arms any monkey "no offence to my fellow shooters or monkeys here" can be taught to shoot and then toss in a dark corner when complete with little worry.

Shooting black powder is a joyous pleasure and a thinking art and requires the shooter to THINK, AND strictly maintain it!!!

You cant just slam a cartridge into the chamber and numbly expect it to work, it takes practice and care and above all THOUGHT to make it work smoothly and thats before you pattern on paper, though folk that have done it awhile make it look easy.

Man I cant tell you how many arguement I have gotten into with folk who have never handeled a musket and some who presume themselves experts about their safety.

You dont need some overpriced italian or 3000$$ custom to own and shoot a good flintlock gun any one who tells you so ,well they are not being so honest.

OK its borderlining on rant...

Cheers
 
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After reading the report, I still don't see any good explanation for why the gun exploded. The grey residue may be normal in dry conditions although given the length of time between the accident and the examination I would expect black powder residue to have turned black and possibly become damp.
I wonder if he was using a heavy charge of Pyrodex or Trail Boss or even a black smokeless with irregular grains. Possibly a mixture of black and smokeless by accident.

cheers mooncoon
 
The bulge in the barrel in the report is associated with an obstruction....is it also possible a bulge could be cause by a spike in pressure caused by a too fast burning powder...??smokeless sort of powder? by accident?

Did the shooter confimed he made the blank cartriges himself from a known supply of powder or was it from other sources...
 
I continue to think about a blown shotgun barrel reported in the Double Gun Journal some time ago. Fellow had dumped some smokeless in a Pyrodex container and several months later decided to load shotgun shells with Pyrodex. He fired a standard charge for Pyrodex but what was actually a double or triple charge of fast smokeless powder and blew the chamber right out of the gun.
I know there are some smokeless shotgun powders which are blackish and irregular granules and could be mistaken for black powder; conceivably that is what he actually loaded.

cheers mooncoon
 
India Made Charleville Proof test

I have an Indian made Charleville. It was checked out by a competent gunsmith (he also drilled the touch hole) and it was deemed to be shootable. I proof tested it with 130 grains of 2F and double balled it. We lashed it to a car tire and set it off using a lanyard. Big BOOM no problem. This gun was purchased from Track of the Wolf so I supppose they checked it out before they sold it although the liability of any harm lies on my shoulders having been the one who had the touch hole drilled. I think that there is more to the situation we are looking at. This happened at a re-enactment and it is possible that the person using it was unfamiliar with the gun and some form of distraction occured....

Steve
 
Apparently they are not allowed to have ramrods at re-enactments so they cannot get left in the barrel and shot out by a blank load at another participant.
It also means they don't get the barrel cleaned either and sometimes never cleaned as some have never shot anything other than a blank.It may be that a dirty barrel just plugged up with gunk and blew up as an obstruction.
 
This gun was apparently new and I can't imagine enough fouling to plug the barrel enough to cause it to blow.; you would not be able to get the powder to the touch hole.

cheers mooncoon
 
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