How much FT/lb we need at the impact to kill a moose...??
- Thread starter Mobeasto
- Start date
BC Bigbore
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- BC's Peace Country
Don't worry foot pounds. Just hit 'em in the lungs with an expanding bullet from a .30-30, .270, .303, .300Mag, .338Mag...whatever. Just hit 'em in the right area and get ready to start guttin'.
X2!! I have never suscribed to the theory that you need XX amount of energy dumped to kill this animal or that animal. I have shot moose with everything from the 6mm Remington [not necessarily recommending this chambering] up through the 338, and as Bigbore so eloquently stated, put a decent expanding bullet in the right spot from any reasonable distance, and the work begins! Regards, Eagleye.
Moose are not that tough usually, but the odd one will surprise you. I find Whitetails to be much tougher and I hunt them with the same gun.
If you are shooting a cartridge that has a higher than average muzzle velocity, then you will definately need expansion on the bullet. My reasoning for this is that most of the moose that I have seen and shot were within 100 yards and the faster cartidges will punch only a small hole typically.
If you are shooting a cartridge that has a higher than average muzzle velocity, then you will definately need expansion on the bullet. My reasoning for this is that most of the moose that I have seen and shot were within 100 yards and the faster cartidges will punch only a small hole typically.
AGREED, using a great bullet with great energy isn't much good without a vitals hit. I have heard people say that ROUGHLY the amount of energy required for a bullet to expand and travel deep enough into a big game animal and do the deed was ABOUT 1500 ft/lbs. But I truly think thats B.S.
Most bullets will penetrate at least 12-18 inches through an animal, and as long as it hits the heart, lungs, or a major vascular area (including the skull and neck or other organs such as the liver) that bleeding will be fierce and death will be quick. I worry about positioning myself in the right place to put the bullet in the right place alot more than I worry about the bullet type and its speed. A 30-30 has downright "anemic" speed and energy compared to todays overbore and steroid based powder cartridges, yet it did the deed quickly by people that knew HOW to hunt for 100 years. Stalking yourself into the right distance to get off the right shot is PARAMOUNT to guaranteeing hunting success.
Most bullets will penetrate at least 12-18 inches through an animal, and as long as it hits the heart, lungs, or a major vascular area (including the skull and neck or other organs such as the liver) that bleeding will be fierce and death will be quick. I worry about positioning myself in the right place to put the bullet in the right place alot more than I worry about the bullet type and its speed. A 30-30 has downright "anemic" speed and energy compared to todays overbore and steroid based powder cartridges, yet it did the deed quickly by people that knew HOW to hunt for 100 years. Stalking yourself into the right distance to get off the right shot is PARAMOUNT to guaranteeing hunting success.
Moose are easy to kill ,not so with elk much more tenacious.Moose are dull witted shockwise and sometimes take a minute to register they are hurt , then simply collapse.The don't typically run off when hit but rather stand and take it..................Harold
Unless you are planning on shooting moose a super long range I'd be more concerned with penetration than impact energy.
A shot raking from one of the rear hips to the vitals can be long (deep) one....Especially if you clip some gut on the way through.
I find hunting game up close in thick country requires more bullet than in open country. A close shot at a North bound moose from the South end can be a tough one.
If ever there was a case for a 338 250 grain this is it.
That said the 338 is not a smart selection for a new hunter nor is any other big magnum for that matter.
A .284 with 175gr premium will penetrate awsomely...and its easier to place in the right spot.
A shot raking from one of the rear hips to the vitals can be long (deep) one....Especially if you clip some gut on the way through.
I find hunting game up close in thick country requires more bullet than in open country. A close shot at a North bound moose from the South end can be a tough one.
If ever there was a case for a 338 250 grain this is it.
That said the 338 is not a smart selection for a new hunter nor is any other big magnum for that matter.
A .284 with 175gr premium will penetrate awsomely...and its easier to place in the right spot.
Foot-lbs as a measure of energy is, for the purpose of hunting, a poor measure of killing power. A large diameter bullet travelling fairly slowly is a very effective killer, yet the ft-lbs measure of energy will not be so impressive. The reason is that when ft-lbs are calculated, velocity is squared. Compare that to the calculation of momentum, where velocity is not squared. A heavy slow bullet will have lots of momentum. Thats what helps it plow through an animal.
But its all academic. The people above are right. The biggest moose I ever shot (790 lbs for the 4 skinned quarters and neck) went down to factory RWS 162gr bullets out of a 7x57. The range was 200 yards. I fired two rounds, although one would have done it. Both shots were right behind the shoulder. One bullet was under the hide on the far side, the other stopped after breaking the off side shouder.
But its all academic. The people above are right. The biggest moose I ever shot (790 lbs for the 4 skinned quarters and neck) went down to factory RWS 162gr bullets out of a 7x57. The range was 200 yards. I fired two rounds, although one would have done it. Both shots were right behind the shoulder. One bullet was under the hide on the far side, the other stopped after breaking the off side shouder.
- Location
- Yellowknife, NWT
Not just coincidentally,most of the cartridges I would use for moose, and at the range I would use them, fit into that 1200-1500 ft-lb slot that todbartell mentioned.
That said, my great-granddad made at least two, one-shot kills on moose at 200 yards with a .38-55. that's about 650 ft-lbs, but the moose didn't know that.
That said, my great-granddad made at least two, one-shot kills on moose at 200 yards with a .38-55. that's about 650 ft-lbs, but the moose didn't know that.
I have shot 3 moose with the 6.5x55 and the 140 Partition. Recovered 1 bullet because it was shot at some angle, and stayed inside the hide on the opposite side. Two moose were dead in 20-30 feet, one where it stood. Ironically, the one that dropped right there was about 375 yards away, go figure!! My 6mm worked on a young bull, who chose to stand broadside at 200yards while I poked him with my "deer" load [100 Partition spitzer @ a MV of 3120 fps] He reared up on his hind legs, tipped over backward, and never got up. The 257 Roberts accounted for a couple, but one was a "no contest" 40 yards, between the eyes with a 120 Partition, started at 3000. The other was about 125 yards, same load, broad side. Moose took about 4 steps and dropped. Moose are not particularly difficult to kill, but the placement does matter! I prefer loads from 6.5mm up, with heavier bullets for diameter up to 7mm. I shot a lot of moose with various 30's using mostly Nosler Partitions in 150, 165, 180 & 200 grain bullets. All worked well when placed well. Never bothered to calculate if they had enough energy to satisfy the "numbers" gurus. Regards, Eagleye.
shortaction
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoulin Island, Ontario
I personally don't have much experience with Moose but I know as was previously stated that scores and scores of them have been taken with the 30-30 and 32 special with 170gr bullets out to 150 yds, so it would seem reasonable that a decent big game bullet with a sectional Density of .232 (170gr in 32 cal) or greater and 1200ftlbs of energy put in the right place should do the trick today as well as years gone by.
And I suppose that you are going to try and convince us that with higher velocity cartridges, the bullets will going too fast to expand?That old myth really needs to die.The truth is,the greater the velocity the more the expansion,the greater the expansion,the larger the wound channel as long as the bullet holds together.Pick a suitable bullet,and the high velocity cartridges are very effective on moose.
David, my friend, what you did not mention in your post (and the question I'm assuming your post relates to), is how far the load you have been working up for your .30-06 over the last few months will be effective on moose, right?
(.30-06 using a stout charge of Vihtavuori N560 to push a 168-grain Barnes TSX at 2,900 fps or more.)
The simple answer is that this particular load will be effective on all game in North America out to ranges beyond where you should be shooting. That load will hit harder and do more damage to a moose at 400 yards than many of the successful loads described by others above at 150 to 200 yards.
You don't even need to think about this question with your current rifle and load. It's a non-issue for you.
As the others have said, it's better to spend time practicing with a rifle and shooting in actual field positions than worrying about minor ballistic issues like this.
(.30-06 using a stout charge of Vihtavuori N560 to push a 168-grain Barnes TSX at 2,900 fps or more.)
The simple answer is that this particular load will be effective on all game in North America out to ranges beyond where you should be shooting. That load will hit harder and do more damage to a moose at 400 yards than many of the successful loads described by others above at 150 to 200 yards.
You don't even need to think about this question with your current rifle and load. It's a non-issue for you.
As the others have said, it's better to spend time practicing with a rifle and shooting in actual field positions than worrying about minor ballistic issues like this.
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