I am posting this for a friend. He has inherited from his grand father a few weapons and he is not going to keep any of them. I have purchased a couple and offered to try and find a fair value and possibly a buyer for one. It is an 1887 VR Enfield Mark IV Martini rifle. From what we can tell on the internet it is an early Mark I converted to a Mark Iv at the factory. It has a barleycom on a block front sight. It looks to be all there and functionable but very old and dirty. I am still trying to find out the caliber but I believe it is a .450. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
VR Enfield help
- Thread starter taper
- Start date
They are valued between $300(low) to $800, it "all" depends on condition. Rusty, well that's not going to get allot. Mint is more. Go to http://psmilitaria.50megs.com/antiques.html look unber the "UNITED KINGDOM" section...
BTW, those are retail prices, I frequently see them for around the $450 range.
Peter
BTW, those are retail prices, I frequently see them for around the $450 range.
Peter
"It looks to be all there and functionable but very old and dirty."
Leave it alone, use nothing other than some gun oil on a cotton rag, and wipe it down. If the exterior is very dirty, then a very gentle cleaning with gun oil on very fine steel wool to remove surface rust. To maintain antique collector value, you must leave the signs of age. If you do too much, along with the patina you will be removing as much as 50% of its value. It is better to do too little than do too much. Let the new owner clean it.
The interior is different, have a go at the bore and see how it comes up with brush, solvent, oil, patches etc. Better the bore, the better potential of it being a good shooter, which will help value.
Leave it alone, use nothing other than some gun oil on a cotton rag, and wipe it down. If the exterior is very dirty, then a very gentle cleaning with gun oil on very fine steel wool to remove surface rust. To maintain antique collector value, you must leave the signs of age. If you do too much, along with the patina you will be removing as much as 50% of its value. It is better to do too little than do too much. Let the new owner clean it.
The interior is different, have a go at the bore and see how it comes up with brush, solvent, oil, patches etc. Better the bore, the better potential of it being a good shooter, which will help value.
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- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
Can't be a Mk1 conversion. A MkIV has a DIFFEERENT reciever profile and the only conversion done to those was a calibre change from .40 to 577-450.
At the time the .303 was starting to come into service and the thought of supplying THREE different types of rifle ammunition was a bit much.
Even the date is WRONG for a Mk1
At the time the .303 was starting to come into service and the thought of supplying THREE different types of rifle ammunition was a bit much.
Even the date is WRONG for a Mk1
John Sukey this is the info I was using off the net.
# Although the Mark IV was produced from 1888 to 1889, some examples are seen with 1886 and 1887 dates. The reason for the early dates is that these weapons were converted from early Enfield-Martini Mark I's. This can be sometimes be evidenced by a "Mark of Arm" marking which is off-center compared to the lock viewer's mark directly above.
# Although the Mark IV was produced from 1888 to 1889, some examples are seen with 1886 and 1887 dates. The reason for the early dates is that these weapons were converted from early Enfield-Martini Mark I's. This can be sometimes be evidenced by a "Mark of Arm" marking which is off-center compared to the lock viewer's mark directly above.
I have a mint, unfired Mark IV 1887 build, Enfield. It is definitely a conversion from a .402.
There were two different conversions of the existing stocks of .402" rifles. Neither the .402" round nor rifle ever made it to "issue" status. Rifles were factory-converted to .577/.450 Ball calibre, M-H chamber.
A few of these have surfaced over the years, pretty grody ones generally from India. Check the butt for arsenal roundels (ALLAHABAD ARSENAL seems to be fairly common) as well as the manufacturer's stamp.
In worn condition, they are a BALL to shoot!!!!!
If half of your bullets fly wide in the ditch,
Don't call your Martini a cross-eyed old #####.
She's as human as you are, you treat her as sich
And she'll fight for the Young British Soldier!
(Kipling, almost needless to say!)
There were two different conversions of the existing stocks of .402" rifles. Neither the .402" round nor rifle ever made it to "issue" status. Rifles were factory-converted to .577/.450 Ball calibre, M-H chamber.
A few of these have surfaced over the years, pretty grody ones generally from India. Check the butt for arsenal roundels (ALLAHABAD ARSENAL seems to be fairly common) as well as the manufacturer's stamp.
In worn condition, they are a BALL to shoot!!!!!
If half of your bullets fly wide in the ditch,
Don't call your Martini a cross-eyed old #####.
She's as human as you are, you treat her as sich
And she'll fight for the Young British Soldier!
(Kipling, almost needless to say!)
No MKIV were not issued to regular British troops except for a very few exceptions. By the time, they were ready to be issued the Lee-Metford was in the experimental stage. Being obsolete they ended up in India and Nepal, a few might have been issued also in Africa, but no photos or account seem to support this fact. The MkIV is a bit of a failed experiment, originally made in the new .40 black powder caliber that became obsolete overnight with the appearance of the French 8mm smokeless powder round in 1886 and the devellopment of the .303 round. All rifles in the new .40 caliber were ordered to be rechambered to 450/577 and the rest of the production were also made in the older caliber, rifles will be found dated 1886 or 1887.
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I did a quick check with a tape measure and I am pretty sure this would be the .450 caliber. The owner said he was told by his grand father (who he inherited from) that it was used in the Boral war. Is that a possability?
Yes all MKIV are 450/577 caliber, Martini-Henry MKII & MKIII and Martini-Metfords and Martini-Enfields were used by British Native troops and some captured and used by the Boers. The Boers also purchased and used some Martini action Francotte rifles from Belgium. Never heard of Martini-Henry MKIV ever used during the Boer War.
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
that information is wrong. the Mk1 came into service in 1873, a good 14 years before. There would be no reason to use the recievers for conversion. And as I previously stated, the profile is entirely different, which would involve some extensive machining to make a Mk1 even remotely resemble a MkIV.
some MkIII's were even produced in 1889 and one or two in 1890.
Incidently I have a nice MkIV forend minus metal that I picked up at a gun show this year.
