is HV more accurate than subsonic?

B

Brentn

CGN frequent flyer
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Location
Calgary
I ask this because I've had a couple people tell me that high velocity, especially stingers are not as accurate as subsonic rounds.

I have no idea personally, but given that we have two rounds, one high one low from the same manufacturer, should their be a difference in accuracy?

I'm also trying to find out what would be the most accurate in my savage .22LR bolt action, I was thinking CCI for sure but not to sure if I should get subsonics or high velocity ammunition.

Thanks for any info.
 
Target and subsonic ammo are not much different.
I shoot a lot of Remington subsonic and target and find it very accurate.

get a bunch of different stuff and see what it likes.
 
The great part is that with rimfire ammo its cheap and fun to try it all and see for yourself. The most accurate ammunition will most likely be standard velocity target grade ammo, however you may well find that some high velocity ammo shoots well. CCI Mini mags for instance shoot well out of my CZ 22, but by well I mean groups around 0.5". That wouldn't excite a real target shooter but its accuracy beyond what I need for entertainment. Even American Eagle hp's shoot decently and are dirt cheap.
 
I don't know if this applicable or not but, I have been playing with the .300 Whisper and some super accurate cast bullet loads, in a benchgun. One load shoots great at subsonic speeds, another shoots better at supersonic speeds, when I reduce the load of the second load to subsonic the accuracy goes for a crap. For me, the jury is still out on this subsonic theory!!
 
Comparing loads is an entirely different subject. There are all kinds of reasons for one round to be more accurate than another, but the fact remains that the average .22 LR bullet is more susceptible to wind drift when it is super-sonic. If you could make two completely ideal .22 LR rounds, one super-sonic and one sub-sonic, the sub-sonic one won't be blown around as much and should thus be more accurate. That's if you isolate every single variable except speed. Which is, of course, kind of hard to do. :)
 
_Shorty said:
But the fact remains that the average .22 LR bullet is more susceptible to wind drift when it is super-sonic. If you could make two completely ideal .22 LR rounds, one super-sonic and one sub-sonic, the sub-sonic one won't be blown around as much and should thus be more accurate.
Click to expand...

This statement is only partly true. The supersonic load is more susceptible to wind just as it passes through the sonic threshold, which is usually between 70-100 meters, so when shooting out to 100 yards, it is usually the subsonic that is the least affected, simply because it started out subsonic, and did not drop through the threshold during flight. I have seen some HV lots that were every bit as accurate as the slower stuff at 50, and the wind did not affect the HV stuff as much as the subsonic. The theory is that when the bullet becomes subsonic, it "wobbles" slightly, making it wind sensitive for a short while. I have shot HV ammo right out to 200+ yards in calm conditions, and have had good results with them. Regards, Eagleye.
 
I don't understand how a bullet could be more susceptible to wind at higher speeds. Doesn't wind affect the bullet more when it spends more time in the air?
 
eagleye said that it becomes unstable when it goes from supersonic to subsonic, so right when the bullet speed drops from 1130 to under 1129 or whatever fps. when it crosses over at that speed it wobbles and could lose accuracy. so basically when it drops out of mach1 the shockwave(is it a shocwave? i dunno) it makes wobbles it abit.
 
yes, I have read that when a bullet goes trans-sonic, it gets buffeted around.
It is for this reason that long range .223 shooters use the 80 grain slug.
It starts out SLOWER, but it holds its speed better. (It does not lose as much velocity as a lighter bullet. Think of throwing a ping pong ball)
At 1000 yards it is still supersonic, while a 55 grain would have dropped below Mach 1.
 
Eagleye said:
The theory is that when the bullet becomes subsonic, it "wobbles" slightly
Click to expand...

That is my understanding as well, the transition from super to sub reduces accuracy thus HV more accurate if target within supersonic range and subsonics more accurate if beyond supersonic range.

Barrel length may be a factor as well - my 27" Cooey barrel will likely produce a lower muzzle velocity than a 20" (or 16") barrel. Have heard that a HV will is subsonic before leaving the 27" barrel (not tested it, if you have a chrony and shoot at PoCo let me know).

Have also heard complaints about subsonics cycling semis but not found this in Buckmark pistols or Cooey 64s.
 
The moment the projectile goes transonic may very well have something to do with the consistency one shot to the next - however the true time of flight of subsonic ammunition in 22LR is actually less than the time of flight
of hi-vel ammo and it is this difference in lag time as it is referred to that
allows the hi-vel bullets to be exposed to any atmospheric conditions for
a longer duration. The projectile that starts at a slower velocity (sub-sonic) actually decelerates less !
 
I can't believe there were so many flawed statements. What a bunch of BS. Higher velocity blown by wind more? Time in flight shorter for sub-sonic? Supersonic becomes susceptible to wind drift during transition? Unbelievable.

Some observations maybe true for rainy conditions as faster bullets usually lighter too and deflected by rain drops by higher degree.

up to 50 yards HV may compete with susonic or standard velocity (which is also subsonic) depending on what your rifle likes. You should try all ammo that you can get. Usually there are no surprises and expensive target ammo does best in most rifles.

Stingers are very inaccurate because of bulet itself is unstable in flight. Nothing to do with speed.
 
As others have mentioned, a high velocity round will move more in the wind then that of a subsonic round - generally speaking. All (reasonable) target rounds are subsonic. This is because when a round changes from Supersonic to subsonic, which is usually between 60-90 meters the bullet becomes instable. This is also why a round that is accurate at 50 yards, might be terrible at 100 yards. Rounds that are stable thorughout the whole course of flight are going to be inheritently more accurate - therefore target rounds are made subsonic. There are exceptions however. I have found Remington "target" rounds to be terrible in the accuracy department - and some high velocity rounds to be more accurate than it (Winchester Powerpoints, CCI mini-mags, etc).

In my CZ and Ruger 10/22 custom I first shot rounds like Federal champion and CCI blazers. Which I switched over to CCI mini-mags and Winchester Powerpoints I thought I had it made. Both of these grouped great! Then I got a box of Lapua superclub. The difference in accuracy was even more remarkable. Better than I had expected.

There are various different grades of subsonic ammunition as you will find as well. You can get the cheaper Eley Practice, which is somewhat acceceptable for target practice and general practice, or you can spend up to $14 a box or more and get Eley Match EPS - which is by far the most consistent ammunition I have ever fired. I have guns that will average under 1/4" at 50 yards with this ammunition.

Rounds like CCI stingers are generally quite inaccurate (although my CZ does seem to like them). There are barrels made specifically for this round - they differ from other barrels as the twist in the barrel is better suited for this round.

If you take a look at some of the stickies at the top of the page there is some info about how the wind affects various cartridge types.
 
The original question was whether HV ammo is less or more accurate than
sub-sonic or low velocity ammo. One has to experiment with various types (even batches of the same brand and type) to determine which is going to be digested by a particular rifle. One of the reasons why many target shooters will acquire as much as they can of a specific type and lot number of ammo when they find one that works exceptionally well.
One has to consider also the level of accuracy one can reasonably expect
from the equipment and ability.

As far as susceptibility to wind deflection, my idea was correct but wrongly explained. The 'lag time' I referred to is the difference between time of flight in ideal conditions (a vacuum) with no atmospheric resistance and time of flight in the air where there is resistance. When you compare the lag times of the HV ammo and the LV ammo , the LV ammo has a shorter lag time due to less drag on the bullet. In short the HV ammo has higher speed resulting in increased drag through the air and longer lag time which increases its susceptibility to wind deflection.
 
Last edited:
Well, just a simple point of view here, but here are some elementary points, sometimes overlooked:

1) The Stinger has a 32-grain bullet weight. Velocity is usually best retained with a heavier weight, so the Stinger lacks the "advantage that a 48-grain Lapua .22 round would have, at least in this respect. :)

2) There is an idea of "time-on-target" at work here, too. The more the speed on a round, the less time it is in flight and susceptible to buffetting, etc., and the quicker it reaches the target. A hyper-velocity round will generally get to the target quicker than a subsonic. ;)

3) For the love of all that is "accurate", please scope your rifle to match the round being used. :) The Stinger's lighter weight often means that it often hits "higher" in terms of point-of-impact in a rifle scoped for a heavier round. ;)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom