Need some scope help

Scharfschütze

Scharfschütze

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Hi
I will be getting a Remington 700P soon (about 1 1/5 to 2 months) I am very interested in a NightForce scope Rick at Alberta Tactical rifles sold me on it at the Kamloops gun show. I was specifically looking at the 12-42x56 NXS with the NP-R1 3.5-15 reticle. I will start at 250-500 yards at first but will like to move a lot further away and upgrade to a .50cal rifle. I don't want to buy a scope twice that's why I went with this specific scope. I went to Vancouver this weekend and stopped in at Reliable gun (Very surprised they sell NF) and the guy(I cant remember who I dealt with) told me I might have a problem that this scope might not have enough adjustment. It only has 45moa elev. 35moa wind. Will this be enough or is there another model I should take a hard look at. I want a NXS model with the above mentioned reticle. I know this is a long post but I am very new to this.

Rick any chance you could share some of you wisdom on my little problem? :D
 
Best thing to do is learn how to calculate the usable adjustment of the scope you are looking at and understand why you need as much adjustment as possible if you are shooting long range. I’ll take a stab at it for you and if I left anything out I’m sure Rick or someone will fill in the blanks.

In theory if your scope is mounted on a flat base and zeroed at 100 yards, you will be at the mid point of the scopes elevation adjustment. Therefore you have to divide whatever total adjustment the scope has by 2 to figure out how much you will actually be able to adjust. For example if the scope has a total of 50MOA you will only be able to use 25 of it. By the way just in case you don’t know MOA stands for minute of angle, it is an actual measurement. I believe a minute is 1/60th of a degree, I’m sure I will be corrected if I’m wrong. So when you adjust your scope 60MOA you are in fact moving the crosshair 1 degree with respect to a target at any distance.

Now, to add elevation adjustment to the scope most long range shooters use a scope base that angles the scope down toward the end of the barrel. A common cant or angle used is 20MOA. This effectively adds 20MOA to the mid point of your scope. For example if your scope has 45MOA elevation adjustment simply divide that by two and add the angle of the cant, say 20MOA which gives you 42.5MOA of adjustment.

Ok so now you know how to figure out how much adjustment the scope will give you, how does that apply to your shooting. If you are using a good ballistics program it will tell you how much your bullet drops in MOA. If you are not using a program or you are but it does not give you drop in MOA, I suggest you find one and start playing around with it. Once you know your bullet drop in terms of MOA simply see how far your bullet travels before you run out of elevation adjustment.

I ran some quick numbers on my program to give you an idea of what 42.5MOA of adjustment will get you, as that is kind of what you are looking at getting.

For an average .308 the bullet drops 42.5MOA at around 1100 yards or 1km.

For a 50cal the bullet drops 42.5MOA at around 1500 yards.

One of my favourite the 6.5/284 drops 42.5MOA at around the 1450 yard mark.

Now if these distances are all you are looking for then that scope will be just fine but if you want to be able to shoot further you will have to get a different scope or increase the angle of your base, however remember that if you increase the cant of the base too much you will not be able to zero the scope at shorter distances.

As far as getting a scope with more adjustment the rule is simple, the lower the power, the more adjustment you will get. So if the scope you have picked out now does not have enough adjustment for you then go with the 32 power NXS which has I believe has 65MOA elevation. That would effectively give you another 200yards in an average 308 load. Going down to the 5.5-22 gives you close to another 150 yards on top of that.

It all depends on what power of scope you want to have vs the distance you want to shoot. I personally am very happy being able to hit 1/2 to 1 MOA targets out to 1000 yards and a 22 power scope is enough to see them. That way when I do start shooting further I will not be as limited by the adjustment in my scope. Now if you want to be able see/hit smaller targets than ½ MOA you will need more power but you will be sacrificing your elevation adjustment to get it.

To make a long story short, figure out the drop in MOA for the furthest distance you want to shoot at using a ballistics program for the cartridge you are using. From there buy a scope and canted base with enough adjustment to allow you to do it.

Hope my little novel here has helped.:)

Dave
 
Find out the yardage you will USUALLY be shooting then go from there.
The previous post assumed a .308,,,, is that what it is, I think the 700 P comes in a couple of choices now dont they?
Any ways, if you have .308 questions you might try to contact Maynard, he'll probably be able to help with specifics.
I have the scope you've previously mentioned and I use it at 1000, most of the time it's only set to 26-30 X , not 42. It works flawlessly, I had a 20 min. rail under the scope rings but have now switched to a one piece N/F mount/rings combo that still has 20 min. on it.
If I set the scope all the way down for elevation , once it bottoms out it's bang on at 200 yrds. The rifle caliber is 6 BR, shooting 107gr SMK's.
To do your ballistic calc's you,ll have to know what bullet you,ll be using and what speed it's moving at.
Might want to play a bit on this site see what you get for answers ,
http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/ballistics/traj/traj.html

M.
 
That scope will have plenty of adjustment for your shooting envelope. The NXS is an outstanding scope; I prefer them to the BR models because side focus is an essential tool for judging mirage - a real challenge with long-distance shooting.

You can increase its maximum range (although I cannot think why you would need/want to with that gun or that reticle) with a tapered base or rings.
 
Scharfschütze said:
Hi
I will be getting a Remington 700P soon (about 1 1/5 to 2 months) I am very interested in a NightForce scope Rick at Alberta Tactical rifles sold me on it at the Kamloops gun show. I was specifically looking at the 12-42x56 NXS with the NP-R1 3.5-15 reticle. I will start at 250-500 yards at first but will like to move a lot further away and upgrade to a .50cal rifle. I don't want to buy a scope twice that's why I went with this specific scope. I went to Vancouver this weekend and stopped in at Reliable gun (Very surprised they sell NF) and the guy(I cant remember who I dealt with) told me I might have a problem that this scope might not have enough adjustment. It only has 45moa elev. 35moa wind. Will this be enough or is there another model I should take a hard look at. I want a NXS model with the above mentioned reticle. I know this is a long post but I am very new to this.

Rick any chance you could share some of you wisdom on my little problem? :D
Click to expand...

UUMmmm I am confused here I sold only 1 scope at Kamloops, a 5.5x22x56R1 and have never ordered or have sold a single 12x42x56 simply because of the limited elevation. We do not recommend the 12x42 in most cases for the lack of elevation they have. Therefore we sell a pile of 8x32s as they have 65moa built in, most of my own personal rifles have these scopes on them and are used well beyond 1000 yards. All of our rifles have 20 moa or more minutes of elevation built into the rail to help accomodate the lack of elevation that larger magnification scope tend to have.
You will find that the high magnification can be a detriment for close target aquisition, and the sheer number of times that mirage hinders the use of high magnification.
The NXS scopes are in my opinion 1 of the best on the market today, for a 308 or even a 50 a 5.5x22 or an 8x32 would be my recommendation.
 
alberta tactical rifle:
Sorry. no I did not buy a scope from you at the Kamloops gun show. You told me how good NF are and that's what I will be buying.
I did look at NF's website yesterday and re-read the chapter on scopes in The Ultimate Sniper and I think the 8-32 or 5.5-22 NXS will be the way to go.

Sorry I probably should have included the bullet I intend to shoot. It will be a
.308 168 gr BTHP from Federal.

Can anyone recommend any good ballistics calculators?

Thanks for all the help
 
Scharfschütze said:
alberta tactical rifle:
Sorry. no I did not buy a scope from you at the Kamloops gun show. You told me how good NF are and that's what I will be buying.
I did look at NF's website yesterday and re-read the chapter on scopes in The Ultimate Sniper and I think the 8-32 or 5.5-22 NXS will be the way to go.

Sorry I probably should have included the bullet I intend to shoot. It will be a
.308 168 gr BTHP from Federal.

Can anyone recommend any good ballistics calculators?

Thanks for all the help
Click to expand...

No problem , thank for clarifying this, for a moment I thought I had really lost my marbles.

You should have good results with the 168s but I would also try the 175s as they have a better trajectory.
NF makes a version of ExBal that is a great program and the NF version is calibrated for their reticles.
The 5.5x22x50 or 56 would be my suggestion for the 308. These are great for 50s as well. The 8x32s come in nicely when shooting extreme long range, as it is easier to dial down from 32X if mirage is a problem, but harder to dial up if you don't have the magnification past 22X.
 
I've always maintained the 5.5-22X56 is the best scope ever made and that everyone should own one!

After you own a 22X you can move to an 8-32X....Though the 32X is a great scope it is more of a specialist than the awsome do-all the 5.5-22X is.

The 32X takes some adjustment....It's strange being that close to your target!
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
No problem , thank for clarifying this, for a moment I thought I had really lost my marbles.

You should have good results with the 168s but I would also try the 175s as they have a better trajectory.
NF makes a version of ExBal that is a great program and the NF version is calibrated for their reticles.
The 5.5x22x50 or 56 would be my suggestion for the 308. These are great for 50s as well. The 8x32s come in nicely when shooting extreme long range, as it is easier to dial down from 32X if mirage is a problem, but harder to dial up if you don't have the magnification past 22X.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion on bullet weight. Once I have my rifle set up and ready to go I will try them for sure. Once I get rolling I will reload my own rounds as well.
Because I would like to upgrade in the future to a .50 cal I thing I will go with the 8-32x 56 NXS.

I would also like to know what ring height will work the best with the scope and rifle I want.
I was looking at the two piece base with either regular rings or the Unimount that NF offers.
Or the direct mount that has the base and rings all in one.
I was looking at NF specifically because I thought that if they put that much effort in there scopes then the bases/rings should be really good as well, but I am open to offers/suggestions.
 
+1 on the S&B. I would have went that way had I not come across a sweet deal on my USO Canadian TPAL.

My advice to anyone buying a tactical scope is get something with FFP and reticle/turrets that are matched (mil/mil or MOA/MOA).
 
Skullboy said:
LOLOLOL.........Thats a good one..............;).......I almost thought you were serious............:p :D

SKBY.
Click to expand...

I agree to a certain point. If I am issued one for sure, if I am paying for it no question a NF over a S&B. Both are quality scopes. I have used Leupold, NF, US Optics and fired a S&B on an issued Timberwolf and to be honest I can't tell the difference, maybe your eyes are better than mine.
 
No question S&B optics are very (VERY) good.
Hard not to see the difference.


I'd give the tough guy award to the NF.

Beyond that its personal preference
 
Just to give you an idea.......

I have an ATR .338LAI with a 20moa rail, and a NXS npr2 8x32x56...... At the summerland shoot, to reach out the the 2400 yrd targets, i was MAXED out on elevation, had the power down to about 10 or so, and had used the lowest hashmark on the scope to reach out that far....... I am going to change to a 40moa rail, BUT..... my point would be that I NEVER used 32 power for the entire weekend, and can count on one hand the amount of times i have used 32 power, due to mirage...... But i do use around 22-24 quite often..... If you are going to these kinda distances either the 5.5x22 or the 8x32 would work great , and seeing the target doesnt ALWAYS require the super large magnification powers....... BTW, you will NOT be disappointed with the NXS.... I have 2 and am going to add more to the collection as soon as I get Rick to build me some more rifles!!!:sniper:
 
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