Musketoon (Ol' Dislocater)

stevejones

stevejones

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I would like to exchange notes with anyone who has experience with the Parker Hale (or any other brand for that matter) Musketoon.
I have been working up some loads to try and wring some accuracy out of mine and have found the following (at least for me. OK?)

-use 3F powder or its equilivant in bp substitute

The Musketoon has a very short barrel and I think 2F does not burn quickly enough to expand the base of the minnie ball.

-wipe the bore between shots helps a LOT

The rifling looks very shallow and fouling seems to affect accuracy quickly


-keep powder down to 50 gr. max

the skirts on minnies seem very fragile and blow out if heavier loads are used.

I am using the LEE .575 470gr. #575-470M and casting with pure lead. I carefully inspect the skirts and recycle any that look questionable.
I have also found that it shoots a patched rounball very well which surprises me as I thought the rate of twist in a musket would not stabalize a rounball.
So if anyone has some input it would be appreciated.

Steve
 
FWIW round balls require no twist to stabilize. The longer the cylinder (of the bullet) the more twist is required.
 
I am just starting out with mine, and I am ordering a mould from Buffalo Arms
A RCBS .575 dia. 500grn flat nose hollow base.
I will let you know how this one works out, I am told it has a very thick wall thickness and bumps up well with 60 gr loads
 
The twist rate, I believe, is 1:72 which is a round ball twist rate. Patched round balls should shoot best. Does the .575" minie just fall down the barrel or does it require a hard push....patched or not? I shoot the Snider long rifle quite often and have found that the .575" hollow base minis shoot by far the poorest. Of course I am not muzzle loading so I can use .585" or .590" cinicals which shoot very well but no better than the .590" round ball as the Snider has a 1:72" twist rate as well. Interesting that you find the 3FG shoots best. Must have something to do with the short barrel... not enough room for a full burn of FG. Good luck, Dave
 
Parker-Hale Muskatoon

I have a Parker-Hale Muskatoon in 577 and the best projectile I use comes from a Lyman Mini mold # 577611. The rifling is progressive depth meaning it is deeper at the breach than it is at the muzzle. To get accuracy use really soft led. The model 1861 Muskatoon isn’t as accurate as the model 1858. I have the 1853 musket, 1858, 1861, and the Volunteer. The British in the 1860’s didn’t cast bullets they formed the Mini projectiles by punching ammunition out of slabs of led leaving them soft. They must have figured that any time something comes out of a hot mold it forms a hard surface and the skirt of the Mini bullet doesn’t expand to give a good seal when fired.
 
Lyman Parker Hale mold

Thanks for the feedback.

I noticed in the Track of the Wolf Catologue that they have a mold #575-213PH 566 gr. mold for Parker Hale rifles. I am not sure what makes this mold specific to thier rifles. The diameter is the same as any other 58 cal. minnie.
Has anyone tried this mold?
About the rate of twist. So far I have received responses that tell me a fair number of twist rates....I guesse I will do some research on this one.
I am considering the use of some type of Maxi or REAL bullet as they have no skirt. I think that one of the problems is the skirts on the minnie blowing out. I was told that the electric furnaces just do not create enough heat to cast them properly and that a gas stove was the ticket.

Any feedback on this?

I think I will try some factory swaged minnies to see if it helps.

One more thing. I have found (*for me) that the best lube is Becel light margerine. Fouling is reduced significantly.

The long and short of this (pun intended) is that to shoot in a musket match I will have to a 2 or 3 bander to compete at the longer ranges but once again, feedback is appreciated.

Steve
 
The secret to the best accuracy is a short skirt.
Merlin (Art) in Victoria knows which one is best, and more than happy to share his knowledge.
I'll cantact him and find out.
Cheers nessy.
ps put lots of lube on the minnie :D
 
nessy357 said:
The secret to the best accuracy is a short skirt.
Click to expand...

I don't think it is the depth of the skirt so much as the thickness of the skirt at the bottom edge. That is what governs how easily the skirt is deformed by excessive powder charges. Also worth noting that you probably want a little alloy in the lead for casting minis to lower the melting temperature of the lead and reduce the risk of wrinkles in the skirt/ cavities in the top of the coned area. Also require a higher casting temperature and a hotter mold than for round ball, at least in my experience

cheers mooncoon
 
mooncoon said:
I don't think it is the depth of the skirt so much as the thickness of the skirt at the bottom edge. That is what governs how easily the skirt is deformed by excessive powder charges. Also worth noting that you probably want a little alloy in the lead for casting minis to lower the melting temperature of the lead and reduce the risk of wrinkles in the skirt/ cavities in the top of the coned area. Also require a higher casting temperature and a hotter mold than for round ball, at least in my experience

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...

We're saying the same thing, I was just quoting how Merlin defined it.
I'll call him tonight to find out the mold he's using.
 
nessy357 said:
We're saying the same thing, I was just quoting how Merlin defined it.
I'll call him tonight to find out the mold he's using.
Click to expand...

sort of yes and sort of no :>) I made some replacement base plugs for a couple of mini molds for shooting in a double rifle. In doing so I had the option of making the base cavity deeper or shallower as well as changing the thickness of the skirt at its edge. My first move was to keep the skirt the same thickness but make the cavity shallower because at the time I was using pure lead which I think is a mistake. I had a lot of problems with shrinkage cavities forming at the top of the base cavity. I think these were overcome by adding about 5% tin/antimony and dropping the melting temperature plus decreasing shrinkage. The other thing I have to play with more is making the skirt a bit thicker than I currently have on my mold (not a standard base plug now)

I think it was in this thread that someone mentioned about the British swaging their bullets; in the case of mini balls, the advantage would have been partly speed and partly to eliminate voids from shrinkage

cheers mooncoon
 
lube concoctions

nessy357 said:
The secret to the best accuracy is a short skirt.
Merlin (Art) in Victoria knows which one is best, and more than happy to share his knowledge.
I'll cantact him and find out.
Cheers nessy.
ps put lots of lube on the minnie :D
Click to expand...

Thanks Nessy! Like I said, I find that light becel margarine works best and I do put a lot on.
So, what type of lube brands or concoctions has anyone found that works for them?
I tried a mixture of sheep tallow, beeswax, and parrafin that I saw on the net but it did not work well. It ended up being semi-hard so maybe it needs more tallow to soften it.

Steve
 
I use a 50/50 mix of bear grease and bees wax. It is soft like baby poo and works well both on minis and on BP cartridge rifles. Almost identical to SPG and to Paul Mathews lube

cheers mooncoon
 
Type of Minnie?

nessy357 said:
We're saying the same thing, I was just quoting how Merlin defined it.
I'll call him tonight to find out the mold he's using.
Click to expand...


Just wondering if you had a chance to talk to Merlin about the type of mold Nessy. I wonder though if he is shooting a Musketoon. The twist on a 3 or 2 bander would be different I think. I was talking to "Walking Eagle" and he suggested the Lyman Parker Hale mold (he used to own the Musketoon I have). The only problem is it is fairly heavy projectile, around 600 grains I believe. I have fired heavy minnies in it and the recoil is something to believe(hence the nickname"ol' dislocater). I have tried lighter minies but they are only good with very light powder charges.
Has anyone tried a Maxi in there muskets? No skirt to blow out at least. I was looking at Lee's REAL bullet mold. It would be great to get a hold of a buch rather than buying a mold that might end up being useless.

Steve
 
I left a message on his phone, no reply yet. I think he might have gone to the Pacific Primitive Rendezvous (10 days).
He has a 3 bander and a musketoon also. He would like to see more of them around to compete against him.
I sold mine 'cause I wasn't shooting it enough.
Cheers nessy.
 
I own and shoot (once in a while) a Parker Hale made 1861 Royal Artillery Carbine. It is one of the original 10,000 re introduced in 1961. As an aside I have an original 2' sword bayonet that locks up on the carbine with not so much as .001" of play; a perfect fit.

I bought the .575 Lee flat point old style Minnie mold and had a machinist cut the hollow base back to a shallow base length, it now throws a 565gr bullet using pure lead. SPG lube on the bullet over 65gr FFG gives me a pretty accurate load. I have fired up to twenty rounds without cleaning the bore and had no trouble loading.
 
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