so your going to turn a blind eye to flagrant violation of both the criminal code and the firearms act without notifying the RCMP ?
.... and this is your clubs stated policy ?
CDP Atts
- Thread starter stormbringer
- Start date
so your going to turn a blind eye to flagrant violation of both the criminal code and the firearms act without notifying the RCMP ?
.... and this is your clubs stated policy ?
Dude I am on your side in regards of it being a bad thing to do. I also take offense to your zeal in crucifying the whole of CDP and CSSA because an unconfirmed detail.
Mandated by CDP, CSSA, or Sharon. You even said yourself that you are waiting for an answer from some parties, yet you have no trouble boycotting it without the full facts. That jumping the gun irks me.
In regards to any ISPC/IDPA/CDP event. In most I have seen a requirement to have a valid BB/CDP/PPC/whatever for proof of capability. Would you refuse showing that? Knowing that the individual has zero right to see your BB as well, yet if he doesn't see it you don't shoot. I know you Stormy, so I also know that you are a BB holder. I couldn't pick Steve David out of a two person lineup. One document is a proof of skill, the other is a requirement by law.
Actually.
The FACT that you are there means defacto that you are a licensed firearms owner legally there and assumes you have all appropriate proof of such as PAL, ATT, Reg Certs. Legal is the presumed status. (I'm quibbling here as I know what you mean
)We won't even mention the waste of police resources that Toronto expends raiding collectors to lay a single charge. (But enough of that) I wouldn't put anything past Ontario's Politico's.If the POLICE want to waste resources on such a concept to be proven wasteful that would be up to them.
Again that is NOT what is happening here.
We have ONE MAN who has decided that HE is the law..
No s**t!
But what is FAR FAR scarier is we now have our own who think that they can take what powers they want and make up what rules they want and we will all go along WILLINGLY!
Not that it matters now...........I have been "Officially" disinvited to this little party. Which of course tempts me all the more to show up and be shown the door.....
Like I said. Email him, call him, tell him. Stormy already has, but alas I bet that Stormy wasn't calm about it hence his 'uninvite' I bet.
As for you Steve. I just posted what was sent to me.
It is indeed http://www.canadiandefensivepistol.org/
I refuse to be a part of that. I am a law abiding gun owner and I am tired of being constantly painted by the media, politicians and anti's as being untrustworthy. This CDP match policy reinforces exactly that message. I'll show my ATT to the police and no one else - that's what the law says. Having said that I think the law is bull#### because if I have a Restricted PAL I shouldn't need an ATT to give me permission to use my own property that I had to jump through so many hoops to own.
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
I draw your attention to my very first post on this subject which is post number 2 on this thread.
Please note the bolded portion.
Please show me where I am crucifying the whole of CDP or for that matter (a very serious one) CSSA. What I am doing here is trying to SAVE CDP!! And by extention CSSA!
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If someone told me that they were illegally there, I would assume that they were lying to me. As I said. Not my club, we assume you are legal, otherwise why else would you be at the club? I may not agree with the laws in regards to firearms, but I don't flaunt the law because it's convenient. Mind you in the 6+ years at my club I have yet to see anyone breaking the law. Breaking Club rules? Yep. The Law? Nope.
then my point is why even ask for it, because it does open up the bod and the club up for liability if they know or suspected illegal activity was taking place.....the illegal activity being the illegal transport of firearms.
it is a can of worms, once opened you cannot turn back on and it is not a legal defense when you say " I did not believe him, even when I asked to see his papers and he did not show them and he told me he had no ATT, I still did not believe him."
then there is the issue of that person driving again transporting that restricted firearm in an illegal manner..... you guys at the club TOLD him to go home, that without an ATT he could not shoot, so you automatically are advocating and telling the person to break the law once again,.
where does the insanity stop.... god forbid if hedid not have a reg. cert... the gun could be illegal and how are you to know unless a reg. cert is produced ??
it is a can of worms, once opened you cannot turn back on and it is not a legal defense when you say " I did not believe him, even when I asked to see his papers and he did not show them and he told me he had no ATT, I still did not believe him."
then there is the issue of that person driving again transporting that restricted firearm in an illegal manner..... you guys at the club TOLD him to go home, that without an ATT he could not shoot, so you automatically are advocating and telling the person to break the law once again,.
where does the insanity stop.... god forbid if hedid not have a reg. cert... the gun could be illegal and how are you to know unless a reg. cert is produced ??
Hey go tell Burke. His rules. I've already made my grief known to him, as has Stormy. I expect everyone here will do the same. I would hope so anyways.
It was 6+ pages ago. I forgot
I apologize Stormy. Like yourself I am not happy at the idea. However, I want to know as you do who is the blame w/o the pointing of fingers without complete details.
There are four answers:
Sharon Requirement - Means I'll never probably go to Sharon.
CSSA Requirement - It had better not be or else I'll be VERY VERY upset and combative.
CDP Requirement - May as well just scrap CDP now.
Burke's Requirement - May have to turf him from being #1 CDP guy.
I agree that we as shooters should have only two mandates in any event. Safety and fun factor.
If you are unsafe, go home, I don't want you near me.
If you don't have fun, Sorry, that was not the intent.
Jarlath, I have the feeling that the two points listed above are one and the same.
I really enjoy shooting CDP, mostly because of the efforts of Steve David at TMC. When I first started I could not figure out why everyone wasn't shooting CDP. Then I discovered the monolithic management structure of the organization and I truly believe this to be a bottleneck to further growth.
As was mentioned in earlier posts, IPSC and other disciplines have their quota of "personalities" but in a relatively new organization like CPD should be close enough to a clean slate to be able to mitigate the damage done by said "personalities". The Canadian shooting community, because of it's relatively small size needs to be cohesive, wedge issues like the ATT debacle need to not arise in the first place through application of forethought or be rapidly rectified when they do occur.
I guess you must be feeling as if the messenger has been pretty thoroughly shot for delivering the news, sorry mate. Mind you, it probably does not help your case that your name is on the CDP competitor certificate shown on the CDP website.
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
Ten, thank you for the kind words, as you know, my main focus and effort is to make sure that everyone is having a great time in a political free enviroment with no BS at my club. Safety is a given, but the most important thing for me is that everyone is having fun, if that is the way it goes by the end of the night, I go home happy. The most enjoyment and satisfaction I get out of this is knowing that you guys and gals had a great time shooting senarios that I set up and I do try to make them as realistic as possible. So far so good, no unhappy shooters, oh and I never ask to see ATT's. One thing I will say to those of you that were hard on Jarlath right from the get go, he really was only the messenger and yet got ripped from the beginning for simply posting an invite. I to have spoken to Dave Burke today and am still not understanding the reasoning for this ATT thing, but it surely did rub a few people the wrong way, those of you with issue, take it up with him, he has an open e-mail on the CDP web-site.
If this is Mr Burk's idea mybe he can explain, as i am sure he knows what is going on here.If it is someone else asking for this let us know. Who elected mr Burk to the job. If this is Mr Burk's idea is anyone else availible to do the job. Steve? Storm?.
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
On some nights we have had over 30 shooters from 7 different clubs attend our shoot, I have never asked to see an ATT. Further to that, I know that both us and another club in the area that shoots CDP have had members of the Durham Regional Police attend shoots, at our club members from the TSU, K9 and street officers attend from time to time, they always send me an e-mail, they just do not show up, but they do come out and have fun and yet they do not have ATT's.
Really? I guess I should feel honoured in a way. As for shooting the messenger, I have a pretty thick flak vest. I do not equate CDP with Burke, if he is going to try and run CDP as a one man show he is already doomed to fail, and I will fight my damnedest against CDP being dragged down with him.
Steve we just recently started up CDP in Napanee with some members from Frontenac (Kingston). The reason we started was just as you said for fun! Informal fun matches, the last one in Kingston was only supposed to run until noon we kept going until 5:00! Why because it was about having fun with a group of people who share similar interests. Maybe our two groups can get together for an informal match and shoot for donuts (I should look at getting some shares from Tims if I keep shooting like I did in Kingston
). We'll see how I do this weekend. BTW we don't ask to see anyones ATT, I might want to sneak a peek at your pistol though.Storm I agree 1000% with you, but you did come on a little strong.
The CDP is new and can use as much of a boost as we can give it, but asking to see an ATT is a bit much I feel. If CDP is to grow it needs to be inclusive and welcoming. Allowing for BB and PPC competitors to shoot is a good start (is there anything like this for IDPA shooters?).
And if things don't smooth out maybe React296 will let us play at his Defensive Pistol Match in Smiths Falls on the same day.
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
Actually I do not think that I came on a little strong.
My first response was that this must be some sort of mistake on SOMEONEs part.
Then I was told that it was the way it was and nothing was going to change it..
THEN................only then and I will freely admit it.
I REPLIED STONGLY.( post 27 or so on this thread)...........(which is part and parcel of my disposition I will admit).
I am very digital in this regard. If I agree with you and like you I will try to move heaven and earth for you. On the flip side if I am in disagreement with you I will try to drop a planet on your ass.
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bclinehand
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Clearwater B.C.
and this sort of crap by Burke as well as the fact that CSSA supports him is the reason I did not renew my membership this year with CSSA
That's nice and petty. Please tell us how something that occured just a couple days ago in June is the direct reason you failed to renew this year, but do it in a different thread.
I'm pretty sure that the deluge of outrage and shock will ensure that something this 'untrustworthy' is not done and will never be done again. IMHO, the biggest problem is the fact that unnecessary checking of documentation is a display of untrustworthiness (is that a real word?). We as a community cannot afford to generate such a poisonous atmosphere.
