Alternate Caliber Lever guns

Crazy.kayaker

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I'm looking at alternate rounds for my hunting gun something with more....range then a .44 Mag. So I come across the Mossberg 464 its a model 1880 30-30 It's valued at USD $473 MSRP or $425 Canadian found it for $317 US. I'm just wondering what type of quality gun this is. I know nothing about Mossberg and would like to know if anyone knows anything about this gun or the quality of Mossberg guns.

I'm also looking at other companies but there is really only Marlin and Browning and Brownings don't fit in my budget and Marlin just barely does. Also Brownings look wrong with the super short magazines.

C.K
 
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There was a recent thread on the 464 on this forum.

I've had a Mossberg shotgun. Not bad, servicable, but pretty no-frills with barely average fit and finish.
 
As an afterthought:

For the price, I'd look at a Marlin 336 in 30-30 used. There are lots around and they are great rifles. You can get one between $300-400.
 
You are not gaining a whole lot with a 30-30. Why upgrade a marginal chambering with another ?

Do you have an objections to a bolt action ? You can a get a stevens 200 shipped to your door with bases for about 350$......The Savage Packages go for under 500$. The Mossberg Bolt guns are also cheap and do the Job, my buddy has one in 30-06 and he had no complaints. Not the best fit and finish that's for sure....
 
One question/statement to you pathfinder: Why does everyone ask me why I want a lever gun when ever I ask about a type or model of said gun? I wouldn't be asking about that model if it didn't interest me or I was wondering about it, nor would I be getting a lever if I didn't like or find them easier to use then any other action I've tried. I don't ask you why you are looking at bolt rather then a lever.

As for why I'm asking about the Mossberg 464

I'm looking in to getting a Deer and Moose rifle that shoots a true rifle round in the .30 cal or higher range that has a lever action in the cowboy style. The half magazines on most lever guns make them look half made to me or ugly. This is why I was asking about the Mossberg 464. I've already picked out the gun that will do double duty as my backup and survival gun till I can get a 45/70 as a replacement for my survival gun and a true big game gun for hunting. I also Know that the .30-30 is marginal on moose.

C.K
 
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.30WCF and 30-30 are one and the same, bud. If you really want a 30-30 then I would look for a used Winnie or a new or used marlin you can get any of them for the same $ range as the mossberg, if you can find a mossberg. I really wouldn't discount the 44mag if you have your heart set on one. There is nothing on this continent that hasn't been killed by a 44mag revolver, a rifle just gives a bit more jam. Having said that the advantage is in the 30-30's favour when it comes to ammo in this country as you can get it anywhere that sells ammo.
 
Oh don't worry I'm getting me a nice .44 mag made by puma first that bullet will stop anything on North America DEAD and as you said that round in a gun has killed every animal on this continent for many decades. But I want something with more range then the 100 yards that a .44 mag will give me that and I'd like more then one hunting gun. Then I'd turn the .44 Mag in to my backup gun. As for for picking up a Mossberg I've found where I can get one. But purchasing the second gun I'm hoping a nice 30-06 or 308 Winnie or Marlin comes up on the EE in a few weeks. And at some point purchase a nice 45/70 lever or a shot gun for a survival gun ;)

C.K
 
You can bet "marginal chambering" put a whole lot of Deer meat in your ancestors freezers. :rolleyes: :D

Yes, 30-30's, spears, rocks, bows and arrows have also put a lot of meat in freezers and over a spit but then again we already know that.........:rolleyes:

By the way the last Deer I took was with an old Winchester 92 in 44-40 so its not like im saying a marginal cartridge wont' do the job. All depends where you are hunting and how far you want to reach out.

Back to the thread.....I was just asking since you didn't necessarily say that your search was limited to a lever action. In this criteria I would go for a Marlin 444, Get a used one if cost is a factor. (if you reload you should think about a 45-70)

If 30-30 is way to go then you're still gonna put "meat in the freezer" as friend Calum Mentioned. Try feeding it some Leverrevolution ammo and extend your range a bit, I would pick up a Marlin 1894 for this....

If you pick up the Mossberg then by all means post some pictures and range report for us. :)

as of right now it looks kind of familiar.....

41010.jpg
 
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We needs a larger picture... :D

Also Mossberg used to the the leader in producing their rifles with aperture sights with some of their rifles, shame they didn't do this with this rifle. :(

I hate fricken open sights, and I doubt a Williams sight would go on without allot of persnickety gunsmith work.
 
For those of you I haven't driven crazy yet here's some more stuff to push you that much closer.

Been looking around took a look at marlins 336 series (30-30). It's actually cheaper then the mossberg 464 by $30 CDN not to mention a known quality gun where as the Mossy is unknown. Though still tempted to get a Mossy 464 along with my Puma .44 Mag.

I am wondering is the 30-30 is accurate at a longer range then the .44 Mag? Also is the 308 longer range then a .44 mag? Pretty sure the .308 is but not so sure about the .30-30.

Also is it possible to have a gun smith to operate on a gun to lengthen a tubular magazine, not for just looks but a full length working magazine? I also know I would have to have the inner tube lengthened. I just really really despise the shorter magazine look.

I would really like a 30-06 lever action for hunting but alas only Browning (ugly and just out of my price range) makes one that I've found to date. Though I have found a few other lever gun companies just they cost 2 times what I'm willing/able to pay for a gun I'm going to use heavily.

I'll have more stuff later thanks for your help in feeding my drive to push more CGN members past the point of no return (CRAZY).

Crazy.K
 
IMO, the 308 is the most accurate of the three, it reigned supreme for some time on the target ranges. It is quite capable at ranges out to 300 yards and more for hunting, much, much longer for target work. It has done well at 1000.

The 30-30, is also an accurate round, but it's held back by the rifles it's chambered in to some degree. Range can extend to 200 yards in the right rifle for hunting, and it has been used at 1000 on the silhouette range, but certainly not for hunting.
The 44, it's reasonably accurate, but it will never win many awards in rifle for accuracy. It's a 150 yard gun at best IMO for hunting, and 100 yards might be better. At those ranges, it's killing power is hard to believe. it can kill at longer ranges, but it's trajectory, and accuracy are limiting.

We (My wife and I) own all three in lever guns

Have you considered the non traditional styled 88 Winchester? In .308, .243, .358 and .284 it's a nice rifle, with a removable magazine that excepts pointed bullets.

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Here's a write up from Guns and Ammo
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/classics/ct0504/index.html

The Winchester Model 88
This sleek, thoroughly modern lever action as ahead of its time.
By Steve Comus
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Seriously sleek and stylish, the Model 88 featured a 22-inch featherweight barrel without the traditional barrelband.


Ever want a bolt-action rifle that handles like a slick lever gun? Just get a Winchester Model 88. The Model 88 features a three-lug, rotating bolt action that is cycled with an underlever that looks like that of a Model 99 Savage. And the Model 88 does all of this with the configuration and feel of a Model 70 Winchester, widely touted as "the rifleman's rifle."

During its production run from 1955 through 1973, there were roughly 284,000 (some list the number as 283,913) Model 88s made in .308, .243, .358 and .284. When introduced, the Model 88 was available only in .308. The next year--1956--two more chamberings were added: the .243 and the .358. And then in 1963 the .284 was introduced.

There was an interesting phenomenon afoot in the shooting industry in those early days of the Model 88 that, interestingly, parallels some of the things going on in the industry today. The Model 88 handled relatively short and fat cartridges compared to the "standard" cartridges of the day like the .30-06 and .270.


Some might opine that a rifle has achieved some degree of lasting relevance if it has had a cartridge specifically designed for it. Perhaps. But in the case of the Model 88, exactly half of the cartridges originally chambered to it are no longer in common use. And the .308 and .243 do not continue to enjoy popularity due to the Model 88; their popularity was unaffected when the rifle was dropped. In the end, the Model 88 never really set the sales world afire. (But it does pose a question: Why, when Winchester changed the Model 70 bolt-action rifle in 1964, didn't the company opt to have the new bolt action feature three-lug lockup? After all, the Model 88 proved that the company knew how to make three lugs work. So why didn't Winchester add a shorter bolt lift to the features of the post-'64 Model 70?)

When the Model 88 was introduced, I was in awe. It seemed to embody everything I thought I ever wanted in a rifle. And it was chambered for that "new" .308 round. Wow! Deer in Michigan would never be safe again, I thought to myself.
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Action evolution: The Model 88's lever (far left) cycled a three-lug rotating bolt that provided much greater potential than that of the Model 94 (left).

Since then I've shot a number of Model 88s. Yet I own just one, a late-'50s .243. That's probably because of the difference between the dream and the reality of the Model 88. For me it's an "almost" rifle--a "coulda-been, shoulda-been" kind of a thing. I must admit that I have shot some Model 88s that have been custom redone, and they are awesome. But the as-issued rifles always seemed to need some kind of qualifier injected into the conversation when they were discussed.

For example, the featherweight-barrel contour is a little whippy. Typically, it's not difficult to get a Model 88 to shoot somewhere in the 1.25- to 1.5-inch category at 100 yards. Mine will deliver 1.5- to 1.6-inch groups with most good ammo, but nothing much better--ever. But rarely is an as-issued Model 88 able to deliver an-inch-or-better groups. Some folks blame the trigger, but it has always seemed that the barrel itself does well to do much better than 1 1/4 inches. Bear in mind, however, that the standard Model 70 of the same period typically delivered about the same-size groups, so there is no effort here to be unnecessarily harsh on the Model 88.

Speaking of the trigger, the kindest thing one can say about it is that when sufficient force is applied to it, it will allow the rifle to fire. That can, however, be remedied, so the issue need not be a deciding one for anyone who wants to shoot a Model 88 a lot.

The real joy of the Model 88 is that it handles quickly and points and swings superbly. In a hunting rifle, these are important things. And that's what the Model 88 is--a hunting rifle.
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The author's Model 88 in .243 features diamond cut-checkering on the fore-end and a detachable four-round magazine (inset).

The lever mechanism/linkage on the Model 88 is unique. For one thing, the trigger and everything remains with the lever as it is cycled. When the action is cycled, the bolt is pulled rearward and then pushed forward, rotating the three-lug, front locking bolt at the end of the forward cycle. It works well and locks up great.

The Winchester Model 88
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Although definitely "scope-friendly," the Model 88 featured a folding leaf rear sight.


The magazine is a removable box design that holds four cartridges, which means that it's possible to carry five rounds (with one in the chamber). The beefy magazine release allows it to be removed with cold and/or wet hands.

Pre-'64 Model 88s feature diamond cut-checkering on the pistol grip and fore-end and a steel lever. For the most part, those made after 1964 featured non-ferrous levers and impressed basketweave checkering (as is often the case with old Winchesters, non-cataloged variations are encountered, so it's risky to make blanket statements about features). Barrels are 22 inches long, and there's no barrelband. In 1968 Winchester added the Model 88 carbine that featured no checkering, a barrelband and 19-inch barrel. The carbine was chambered in .308, .243 and .284.

Unlike traditional Winchester lever actions, the Model 88 has a sleek, modern look with its contoured receiver and one-piece stock. It came drilled and tapped for scope mounting or for a rear aperture sight.


Perhaps one of its accuracy challenges is the way the barreled action is connected to the stock. Somehow the term "bedding" as it is used for bolt-action rifles doesn't quite seem to apply to the Model 88. There is one screw (bolt) holding the barrel to the fore-end about an inch forward of the rear sight. The rear of the barreled action is held in place by a steel fixture into which the rear of the action is keyed. Although this system is substantial, it can result in uneven torque on the barrel and action during firing if everything is not totally perfect--which it rarely is for out-of-the-box rifles.

One does not have to be a serious Winchester collector to want a Model 88. The rifle was the product of a transitional era in the firearms industry. It could be argued that the late 1950s and early 1960s heralded the beginning of the modern era of sporting rifles. And the Model 88 was the industry's last, best shot at reviving the lever action. In the same way that the Model 71 was the last of the Winchester lever rifles of the Browning design that fell to the Model 70 in the marketplace, the Model 88 lost the final round in the "high-intensity lever gun" contest.

By the time the Model 88 left the market, Savage's Model 99 lever action was also in steep decline. Sako's Finnwolf spanned the same general period, having been introduced in 1962 and discontinued in 1974. Yet both Winchester and Marlin have continued to market traditional lever actions in less intense chamberings. This has ensured that--within certain parameters--the lever action lives on. But as a mainline rifle in competition with the bolt action, it's history. (In 1961 Winchester introduced the Model 100, which, for general discussion, was the semiauto version of the Model 88. It, too, was dropped in 1973.)
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The author still shoots his Model 88. This three-shot, 100-yard group (below)--using Federal 100-grain factory loads--measures 1 5/8 inches, which is about par for the Model 88.

Still, the Model 88 has a cultlike following of fans who simply adore it. They'll get no argument from me. It's still one heck of a fun gun to shoot and hunt with.

Sadly, many Model 88s spend most of their time these days in closets and gun vaults. They deserve better than that. They deserve to be hunted with, shot and enjoyed. Mine finds its way into the open spaces of the Southwest routinely, where it serves primarily as a predator-popper. It may not deliver hair-splitting accuracy, but it shoots minute-of-coyote on a daily basis.

The Model 88 is a true Winchester and one of the more interesting designs of its time. In its own way, it truly is a classic.
 
Plenty of new lever-action Brownings out there in .270, 30-06 , 7mm Remington, 300 Winchester, 270 wsm, 7mm wsm, 300 wsm, 325 wsm.

If you are looking for used rifles chambered for "modern" cartridges there are, as mentioned, the Savage 1899's & 99's . Sako also made the lever action Finnwolf in 243 & 308 for a while. There are also a good number of used Winchester 88's in 308 for sale and occasionally one finds them in 243, 358 or 284.
 
I'd have a look at the 99's crazykayaker.There not too hard to find in .300 sav or .308.

Put a WTB add in the EE and you'll havea good choice of rifles to choose from.That's what I did when I was looking for a 99 in .308,within an hour I had about 10 different rifle's to choose from.Good luck on whatever you decide.
 
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