Help identify this antique

agit-prop

agit-prop

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A fellow at a local industrial supply company I go to occasionally was wondering what I needed a #12/32 screw for, so I told him I needed it for a gun I was working on. He mentioned that his uncle brought back an old rifle after being stationed in scotland during WWII

It's a percussion muzzle loader with a rifled octagonal damascus barrel that has "James Richards Maker Is Royal Exchange Sotare Glasgow" engraved on the top of the barrel. It has a blade front and notched rear sight.

The stock is checkered around the wrist and has a pewter or german silver schnable cap and a steel butt plate. Several features point to this being a fine target rifle when it was in its prime. All of the metal parts are steel or iron and have some engraving, as can be seen in the photos here: http://www.pbase.com/agitprop/james_richards

As you can see it's in a pretty sad state, with a variety of wood screws holding it together... Any ideas as to value? I'm guessing it's a $30 wall hanger in its current condition.
 
$10 to $80 is what I have seen for walhangers like that. I'd pay $30 for it to take apart and see how it went together. It could be used as a pattern for a new one or ideas for one.
 
It's drop dead gorgeous !!
Best I can tell you is I sold an original, half stock Ohio in similiar condition for $250.
It was shootable and extremely accurate also.
Cheers nessy.
 
theDuck said:
$10 to $80 is what I have seen for walhangers like that. I'd pay $30 for it to take apart and see how it went together. It could be used as a pattern for a new one or ideas for one.
Click to expand...

Where you been Shopping :eek:


I sold a old Shotgun percussion SXS for $250 it wasnt as nice a gun as the one in the above pics.
My guess would be $180 to $200. Depending on how good the lock works.
 
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The lock seems to work fine. The barrel is plugged at the action end, but the obstruction (whatever it is) seems to be no bigger than a ball would be. I have no idea if there are any proof marks as I didn't take off the barrel.
 
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There Seems To Be An Obstruction...

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"THERE SEEMS TO BE AN OBSTRUCTION........."

HOLD IT BOY! ------ YOU JUST RANG THE GONG.

BE CAREFUL. Many of these old muzzle loaders were put away loaded. You "OBSTRUCTION" could be a live shot charge.

Take a long WOODEN (not steel) rod that will go into the muzzle of the gun. Lower it gently inside until it touches bottom. Keep your hands away from the rod. MARK THE ROD AT THE MUZZLE WITH A LINE. Then pull it out, and put it along side the barrel on the RIGHT side so that the line you marked on the stick is even with the muzzle of the gun. Look at the bottom end of the stick that is along side the barrel. It should be approximately even with the NIPPLE or DRUM.

IF IS NOT EVEN WITH THE NIPPLE OR DRUM, OR DOES NOT COME BACK FAR ENOUGH TO BE EVEN, YOU PROBABLY HAVE A LIVE CHARGE LOADED.[/COLOR]

IF SO, HANDLE IT VERY GENTLY. CALL A GUNSMITH FOR ADVICE.
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Did that, and as I mentioned, the stick stops about as far away from the nipple as the calibre... I suspect there is only a lead ball in there. Regardless, I won't be putting a cap on it to see what happens.
buffdog said:
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"THERE SEEMS TO BE AN OBSTRUCTION........."

HOLD IT BOY! YOU JUST RANG THE GONG.

BE CAREFUL. Many of these old muzzle loaders were put away loaded. You "OBSTRUCTION" could be a live shot charge.

Take a long WOODEN (not steel) rod that will go into the muzzle of the gun. Lower it gently inside until it touches bottom. MARK THE STICK AT THE MUZZLE WITH A LINE. Then pull it out, and put it along side the barrel on the left side so that the line you marked on the stick is even with the muzzle of the gun. Look at the end of the stick that is along side the barrel. It should be approximately even with the NIPPLE or DRUM.

IF IS NOT EVEN WITH THE NIPPLE OR DRUM, OR DOES NOT COME BACK FAR ENOUGH TO BE EVEN, YOU PROBABLY HAVE A LIVE CHARGE LOADED.[/COLOR]

IF SO, HANDLE IT VERY GENTLY. CALL A GUNSMITH FOR ADVICE.
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Click to expand...
 
In the pictures , it looks like a hook breach that is screwed into the barrel . Judging by the marks on the barrel , someone has had it in a vice and removed the breach or tried to. If you can get it off , you could then drive out the "obstruction/ball" .
You could then inspect barrel and decide whether it is a shooter or wall piece :D

cheers

and nice piece btw.....
 
It would appear to me to be a deer stocking rifle and is a lower grade. It appears to a fairly large bore which puts it into deer hunting and would use a ball with 2 to 2 1/2 drams of powder. With the back action lock it would be in the 1860's or later. After the back lock went out of fashion it was used on a lot of export guns or lower grade guns. The other indicators of the lower grade gun is the short tang on the top of the butt plate and the trigger gaurd is one piece doesn't screw into the trigger plate.
I would also put the value in the 250 area
John
 
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