New to reloading

http://demigodllc.com/
Use this link and you will find a series of articles on "Practical Long-Range Rifle Shooting" where solid, useful information is available on the following topics:

Part I - Rifle & Equipment

Part II - Optics

Part III - Shooting

Another great sight for all information related to firearms, etc is
http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html

Thanks for the great links - the demigod one is great; the author and I share a penchant for purpose-built factory rifles and the idea of making the first rifle the best you can get.

Hey Redman,

Welcome to the best sport in the world.

The best advise I've seen here yet is to contact your provincial rifle association.

They will not only be able to help you set up your reloading gear, they will help you learn to shoot that beautiful rifle like a champ in no time.

Find mentor in the PQRA and save yourself a pile of time, money and frustration.

Once again, welcome aboard.

V7

Thanks V7! I'm really enjoying it.

I went to their site, but it deals mostly with competitions - how do you sign up for an "apprenticeship" (for lack of a better word)?

A tumbler is a "nice to have" thing, not a "must have." There are plenty on the market some for as little as $50.
A full length "S" type die uses a bushing and full length resizes the case as opposed to a neck sizing die that just resizes the neck. Or another brand if die that resizes everything but does not allow you to control the neck tension.

A body die resizes just the body. You can run a loaded round through them to bring the case back to size and bump the shoulder back. Very useful if you have several rifles of the same caliber and have only neck sized your brass. This will eliminate you from pulling several hundred rounds that are not resized properly. They are cheap compared to several hours of your time pulling bullets and reloading again. I recommend one for every caliber you load for.

The calipers are used to measure your brass for length, so you will know when to trim. Check OAL of your loaded rounds, measure neck diameters and case wall thickness.

OK, so given what you say, my total kit will thus be:
- RCBS starter kit (which includes scale)
- RCBS S-Type die
- Lee shell holder/trimmer
- Lyman Reloading Manual (49th ed.)

In addition, what tools will I need to manipulate the powder? Syphon? Measuring spoons? etc
 
Hate to bump, but:

OK, so given what you say, my total kit will thus be:
- RCBS starter kit (which includes scale)
- RCBS S-Type die
- Lee shell holder/trimmer
- Lyman Reloading Manual (49th ed.)

In addition, what tools will I need to manipulate the powder? Syphon? Measuring spoons? etc
(is this last part included in the kit?)

Will this suffice in terms of my fixed investments for reloading?
 
You might want a powder measure, LEE makes a cheap one that works well as well as RCBS, Hornady etc. A bullet puller, because you are sure to have some fcuk ups along the way. And again you should get a vernier, Canadian Tire has them on sale once in a while.
 
Yes, caliper! Forgot that one... So:

- RCBS starter kit (which includes scale)
- RCBS S-Type die
- Lee shell holder, trimmer & powder measure
- Lyman Reloading Manual (49th ed.)
- Digital vernier caliper
- Bullet puller

If anything's missing here, please let me know - otherwise, let's open up this can of worms.
 
Well if you really want to open a can of worms, go look at the Sinclair Int'l web site. They have more wigits and gadgets for reloading than you can think of. w w w.sinclairintl.com request one of their catalogs, make a list and get out the gold card.:p

What you have on your list will get you making very accurate ammo in no time.
 
Well if you really want to open a can of worms, go look at the Sinclair Int'l web site. They have more wigits and gadgets for reloading than you can think of. w w w.sinclairintl.com request one of their catalogs, make a list and get out the gold card.:p

What you have on your list will get you making very accurate ammo in no time.

Thanks! Although it's more like time to save up than splurge! Summer vacation + factory match ammo + $1.50/L = low funds. :)
 
Holy thread resurrection!

In my shopping list three posts above, I include a "RCBS S-Type die"... Is it RCBS or Redding? Because I couldn't find any RCBS S-type dies...

If it is Redding, would it be compatible with the press in the RCBS starter kit?

Thanks... I'm finally getting my act together and starting to reload.
 
Bump #2; can anyone help with this:
In my shopping list [five] posts above, I include a "RCBS S-Type die"... Is it RCBS or Redding? Because I couldn't find any RCBS S-type dies...

If it is Redding, would it be compatible with the press in the RCBS starter kit?

Thanks... I'm finally getting my act together and starting to reload.
 
OK so I noticed you have gone with RCBS, but have you looked at Lee's Breech lock press kit? You get everything, minus the vernier and dies. Great press, very strong, and you never have to worry about primers all over your bench and floor! Much cheaper, and like mentioned, you will get very good reloads with this press, and save a pile of money at the same time. Cheers
 
Dies are pretty much compatible - i.e. LEE, REDDING, RCBS, FORSTER, etc will all fit in each other's presses. I really disagree about the scale - get an electronic trickler/scale combo (I have the Lyman but the RCBS is better I gather) as from your current rig I doubt you want to spend time hand trickling or scooping. If you are shooting out 1000 yds the amount of propellent wiill make a difference in groups and having messed around with hand trickling/scooping it just a lot of time (esp if you want to reload more then 100 cases in an evening). I like your choice of RCBS eqpt they are solid with good warranty - ditch the Lee trimmer that is only good for one length you should actually measure your chamber and trim your brass so that is matches and is not trimmed to SAAMI length (any other case trimmer will allow you the flexibility to do this). As for bullet selection, 168 gns is good stuff but if you want to shoot to 1k you should either look at the 155 Scenars (Lapua) or 175 SMK (Sierra). Good luck, reloading is plenty of fun in itself.
 
OK, now we're getting somewhere! :D

I just checked out the RCBS trickler & scale combo; that thing looks totally sweet! Does it perform as well as it says it does? This is the PowderPro Scale and PowderMaster trickler, right? I read that PowderMaster is discontinued... Could you tell me the specific models, since they look like real time savers. I just noticed the 1500 models - are those the ones to get?

Which trimmer should I use then? I know it's a match chamber, but I don't know if it's SAAMI or CIP certification... I know they stamp the receiver/barrel right? I have this feather/olive branch looking stamp on my barrel close to the breech; does that say anything? It's the same logo that's on RUAG ammo boxes. Also, I'll be shooting between 200 and 600 yds (max); 168gr bullets are OK for this, no?

Good to hear about press/die interchangeability between brands...

Thanks for the help! :)
 
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Redman: As you only have 1 rifle (which I think is good) of such high quality, my advice is take the same approach with your reloading eqpt. Here is what I recommend you get (take it or leave it but that is completely up to you) I will try to inc a justification for you so you understand why money is being spent:

1.) RCBS Rock Chucker Press (Supreme kit is good but ideally the press is all you need)

2.) RCBS/Lee Shell holders (Some guys will tell you that Redding/more expensive holders are req'd (i.e. the ones from Redding that have differing heights) - total BS. Get whichever shell holders you want as really it is the die that controls how much you size the case and how deep the bullet seats.

3.) Redding Bushing Dies (S-Type) - Competition is a waste of dough as you can size the neck as little or as much as you want based on how deep you screw the die into the press. Once you have it set - tighten the locking nut and voila you are done. As you only reload one .308 Win calibre rifle the funky competition knob is not req'd (it is useful if you have more then one rifle and you segregate brass. Basically you set the nut and you adjust the top knob for your different brass - in your case not req'd). S-Types will do the same job as the Competition but is really designed for the single rifle shooeters like yourself.

4.) Body Sizer Die (Redding) - No brainer every once in a while you will need to bump your shoulders back so once you get your measurements (which I will cover later) you set this and lock it.

5.) Competition seater (Redding) - In this case the competition seater is the way to go it is fast to adjust changes to seating depth, aligns the bullets prior to seating, and allows you have differing settings for your different loads.

6.) Funnel - Recommend you get a full set with drop tube - the drop tube allows you to put more powder into a case as it settles it better then a short tube but really any funnel will.

7.) Imperial Sizing Wax - As you are shooting precision I like sizing wax a little bit goes a long way - I am still using the same tin and it isn't messy. Spray lube is good for mass reloading and RCBS case lube is good if you have a lubing die on a progressive but for single stage wax it.

8.) Powder Trickler - I got a Lyman 1500 back in the day and it does the trick so I haven't upgraded but a RCBS is faster. Once you have sized/trimmed/primed. It is nice to be able to have a load precision amounts of powder without weighing each load on a balance beam (I used to do this). Whichever model you decide on both will get 'er done and it gets things done.

9.) Trimmer - I am using a RCBS Case Trimmer 2 - There are many trimmers out there - I recommend you get one with a quick release and not one with a collet to hold the case as trimming is tedious and really sucks. Whenever possible try to get a 3-way trimmer (RCBS) as it will chamfer/deburr/and trim in one action. As you trim brass, the metal will form burrs on the inside and outside of the case. The 3-way will clean it up in one operation but you still should get a Chamfering/Deburring tool for when you buy new brass and you just need to chamfer/Deburr - if you don't you can wreck the jacket on your bullets (happens frequently on flat base bullets). As well you can buy a neck turning attachment and clean up your brass if you really want to.

10.) RCBS Chamfer/Deburr tool - recommend you have this tool it is made by Wilson for RCBS and is top notch - Most of my deburring is done by #9 but you should have this on hand for the quick jobbies.

11.) Hand priming Tool (LEE/RCBS/whatever) I use the RCBS as it shares the shell holders from the press but whichever you go with is cool. Don't mess around with priming on your press. First, you can't feel the primer seat so you can't tell if you need to turf brass (loose primer pockets are a no go) and second it is just plain slow. Hand priming is bang on and don't mess around with APS (RCBS) as the stripper clips work but it is just another step but what you want is up to you. All you need to do is dump the primers on the tray, jiggle the tray, and eventually all the primers will be facing up - works good and is fast.

12.) Primer Pocket uniformer (Lg Primer/RCBS) This little beauty will clean your carbon mess and uniform your pockets in one shot. Some guys will use the brush but if you have choice just get this tool and you are set.

13.) Brass Cleaning Liquid - Some guys mess around with a tumbler (I have one but I almost never use it) the cleaning liquid is fast, no electricity and easy to use. Take your brass dump it into a tub pour liquid on and let sit, drain liquid back into original container, and rinse your brass. The liquid will last a long time and is cheap. I also like that I don't have walnut dust or crap in the flash hole to clean. Tumbler seem like a kick ass way to clean brass but I find the extra work to be tedious (Cleaning flashholes, checking each case to make sure there is no media in it, etc.)

14.) Save yourself expense and buy LAPUA/NORMA Brass. I have flash hole deburring tools, neck uniforming tools, etc and I used to waste countless hours messing with brass. Now I buy Lapua and just load. Besides standard reloading procedures I don't like the idea of wasting time doing brass prep. Just not worth it. If you want to know how to make yourself crazy I can post on how to take a POS Rem case and turn it into a uniform case but I won't post it here.

Once you have all these tools, here is my process for reloading:

New Brass:

1.) Neck size all the cases (even Lapua) I have found that sometimes brass gets treated roughly and the necks are not perfect.

2.) Chamfer/deburr

3.) Prime.

4.) Charge Case.

5.) Seat Bullet.

Go out and shoot.

Fired Brass:

1.) Size Case (neck only)

2.) Bump shoulders/Trim (only if required)

3.) Uniform primer pocket (also cleans carbon out)

4.) Soak in liquid cleaner.

5.) Air Dry (depends but if you let it sit for a while it won't be too long)

6.) Prime.

7.) Charge.

8.) Seat.

How to check your chamber dimensions. I recommend you get your local Gunsmith to Cerrocast your chamber it is not too expensive and I don't recommend a DIY project as you don't want to mess with that stuff. You can use the mold for all your measurements and can even see where your rifling starts. Hopefully this long post helps.
 
Here are the notes I gave out at the ORA reloading clinic for new shooters.

Brass Preparation

Neck turning is not required. If the brass needs turning buy better brass. Winchester is very good, requiring a little prep. Norma and Lapua are best, with Lapua lasting longer. Norma and Lapua require no preparation other than mouth chamfering and sorting by weight.

Virgin brass. A minimum of 500 cases is required.

Chamfer all case mouths. I put a Lee Valley reamer in my electric drill and then clamp the drill in a vise.

Sort the brass by weight. You need about 5 plastic tubs. I use coin tubs from the casino. Label them in increments of 0.3 grains.

Winchester brass should have all the flash holes skived on the inside to remove flashing. Do this with an electric drill clamped in a vise. Use a special tool or a 1/8” drill bit to just touch each flash hole with a drill. (Touch the hole on the inside.)

Once fired brass can be full length sized en masse before the above steps or the individual tubs can be sized as needed. Do not size all the way to the bottom if a lesser amount will allow the cases to chamber.

Finished brass should be stored in 50 round boxes. Label the box on the inside with the brass weight. Load and fire all brass once before loading any for the second time. Neck size only if to be used in same rifle.

Neck size the neck about 80% of the neck length. Size neck down about 3 thou smaller than neck diameter when loaded. This is done best with a bushing sizer or by using a conventional neck sizer with the neck button removed from the rod. If the button won’t come off, use the rod from a smaller caliber. This increased neck tension improves accuracy by increasing initial pressure on ignition.

By neck or full length sizing with no neck expander button the cases will not stretch as much and will probably never need neck trimming for length.

When full length sizing a large quantity of brass, I like to use Lee lubricant. This is a squeeze tube of a water soluble cream. I but about 100 pieces of brass in a 4 liter plastic tub with a 1 inch worm of cream smeared along the tub walls. I then swirl the brass around in the tub. This is best done in a tub with a lid. This will lube all the cases and put a little bit inside the mouth to make the neck size easier.

After sizing the cases can be individually wiped clean with a paper towel or washed in the dishwasher. Put them in a cloth bag.



Loading

Prime cases with a thumb seater – RCBS or LeeAuto Prime. The primer seater on a press has too much leverage and there is no “feel”. A thumb seater is much more uniform.

Best primers are Federal Match and CCI Benchrest. For magnum size cases, Use CCI Bench rest.

Throw powder charges a bit light and bring to spec by pinching powder onto an electronic scale. An electronic scale is much easier to use than a balance beam, but a balance is just as accurate – just slower.

After filling all cases on the loading block, visually check all rows to see that all cases are filled and uniform.

Bullets should be seated with an inline seater. I use a Bonanza. The Hornady is similar.

Plastic ammo box should be labeled with the load recipe.

After loading, return the powder in the powder thrower to the correct container. This reduces the risk of it being miss-identified later and being put in the wrong container (contaminating the powder) and it also helps maintain the correct moisture content. Water content is used by the factory to fine tune the powder burn speed.

If you have multiple containers of various vintages and lot numbers of the same powder, it would be a good idea to mix it all together so you have a consistent powder for as long as possible. Each lot of powder is a bit different, and some lots are very different, requiring new load development.

Powder
A double base powder is more temperature sensitive than a single base. Best powders, in order (for 308 and 223) are:
Vit N140
Vit 150
Varget
RL-15
4895

Ball powders meter well but higher flame temps increase throat erosion.

In 308 barrel life is about 3000 max in a blue barrel and 6000 in a stainless.



Testing
A good Standard Deviation of velocity is required for long range. A good SD does not mean a load will work, but a poor SD will not work. Some preliminary testing can be done at short range and range testing only for loads that show some promise.

SD should be 10 or less. Velocity max listed is control to avoid excessive pressure. Note the desired range of velocities. The max listed should not be exceeded, even if there is no sign of pressure. There is no free lunch. High velocity means hi pressure:

32” Barrel – 2925 – 2975 fps
30” 2900 – 2950
28” 2850 – 2900
26” 2800 – 2850

Note: On a warm day, 2800 fps works fine at 1,000 yards. It may not be enough on a cold spring or fall day.

Testing for accuracy can be done at 300 to 600 yards, off sandbags with a 15X or stronger scope. A good rifle and ammo combo will group under a half minute. Nothing can be learned at 100 yards other than velocity and SD.

A 5 shot group tells you nothing. A 10 shot group is useful. Once you have a load you think is your accuracy load, try it several times off sand bags, with a scope, at a longer range – say 500 yards. A single good 10 shot group does not mean the load is good. Flyers can go into the group as well as out of the group.

Start testing with a clean barrel. Make sure at least 10 shots are fired in zeroing the rifle before shooting groups. Have some extra ammo for this purpose. Old test odds n ends are good for this.

When you have found your “pet” load, test it with a half grain of extra powder. It should still work reasonably well. If it does not, or if pressure problems exist, you are too close to the limit and will have a bad time of it on a hot day. This is a critical test if you develop loads in the spring (cool weather).


Shooting

Ammo should be in 50 round box, point up. Don’t cook the primers. Keep box in range bag until needed.

Put fired cases into the box mouth down, so you can keep an eye on fired primers, watching for pressure signs.

Use the entire box before switching to the next box. There is no problem in switching boxes, even if different weight cases. You don’t want to have a collection of ammo boxes at home with a few live rounds each.

If there is pressure - very flat primers, a blown primer or hard extraction – STOP SHOOTING!! There is no point in ruining the brass and risking a disaster. I have seen blown up rifles that blew 3 primers before the shot that blew the rifle. Don’t waste the warning God gave you.

See an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh1lyMyejpI&feature=related


Ammo too hot? Here is a trick that will drop the pressure and let you continue the shoot. Smear a little bolt lube grease around each bullet. This drops pressure about 5,000 psi. Not only will this allow you to continue the shoot, but it will most probably improve the accuracy of the hot ammo, too.
 
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Ganderite's post is bang on except for the trickler thing - DON'T DO IT. :p You will want to kill yourself after about 20 rounds. Nothing is more fun then watching the balance beam go up and down while you wait for it to settle. BLECH!
 
OK, here goes (I hope someone will actually read this!!):

Redman: As you only have 1 rifle (which I think is good) of such high quality, my advice is take the same approach with your reloading eqpt. Here is what I recommend you get (take it or leave it but that is completely up to you) I will try to inc a justification for you so you understand why money is being spent:

1.) RCBS Rock Chucker Press (Supreme kit is good but ideally the press is all you need)

2.) RCBS/Lee Shell holders (Some guys will tell you that Redding/more expensive holders are req'd (i.e. the ones from Redding that have differing heights) - total BS. Get whichever shell holders you want as really it is the die that controls how much you size the case and how deep the bullet seats.

What is a shell holder and what is it for? It was already in my previous "shopping list", but I figured the reloading manual would explain... Could you enlighten me somewhat, along with factors to consider in their purchase/use?

3.) Redding Bushing Dies (S-Type) - Competition is a waste of dough as you can size the neck as little or as much as you want based on how deep you screw the die into the press. Once you have it set - tighten the locking nut and voila you are done. As you only reload one .308 Win calibre rifle the funky competition knob is not req'd (it is useful if you have more then one rifle and you segregate brass. Basically you set the nut and you adjust the top knob for your different brass - in your case not req'd). S-Types will do the same job as the Competition but is really designed for the single rifle shooeters like yourself.

Makes sense. Me and a friend will both be using the reloading setup (we're splitting the cose). I was told the only thing we'd need to double up on is the die; is that correct? (i.e. since we are using different rifles - he's got a Savage 10FCP McMillan - we'll use different seating depths, etc.)

Is their any other benefit to the competition dies? Are the tolerances in manufacturing tighter or something? I've heard there exist "match dies" - is that what the competition one is?

4.) Body Sizer Die (Redding) - No brainer every once in a while you will need to bump your shoulders back so once you get your measurements (which I will cover later) you set this and lock it.

Redleg from The Shooting Edge told me this regarding my rifle:
The LRS2 is a good rifle, BUT the Blaser system is really not reloader friendly. Because their is no camming action, all brass needs to be full length resized to ensure proper operation.

I understood what full body resizing is, but didn't know what he meant by camming action... Could you expound on what he's saying, and does this impact my kit selection in any way?

5.) Competition seater (Redding) - In this case the competition seater is the way to go it is fast to adjust changes to seating depth, aligns the bullets prior to seating, and allows you have differing settings for your different loads.

How is this device used? Is this something that goes in the press along with the die?

6.) Funnel - Recommend you get a full set with drop tube - the drop tube allows you to put more powder into a case as it settles it better then a short tube but really any funnel will.

The RCBS 1500 trickler/scale combo seems to have a nice powder collector cup on the scale with a corner that's used for pouring the powder into the casing... Why do I need a funnel on top of this?

7.) Imperial Sizing Wax - As you are shooting precision I like sizing wax a little bit goes a long way - I am still using the same tin and it isn't messy. Spray lube is good for mass reloading and RCBS case lube is good if you have a lubing die on a progressive but for single stage wax it.

How do you use this wax and what is it for?

8.) Powder Trickler - I got a Lyman 1500 back in the day and it does the trick so I haven't upgraded but a RCBS is faster. Once you have sized/trimmed/primed. It is nice to be able to have a load precision amounts of powder without weighing each load on a balance beam (I used to do this). Whichever model you decide on both will get 'er done and it gets things done.

9.) Trimmer - I am using a RCBS Case Trimmer 2 - There are many trimmers out there - I recommend you get one with a quick release and not one with a collet to hold the case as trimming is tedious and really sucks. Whenever possible try to get a 3-way trimmer (RCBS) as it will chamfer/deburr/and trim in one action. As you trim brass, the metal will form burrs on the inside and outside of the case. The 3-way will clean it up in one operation but you still should get a Chamfering/Deburring tool for when you buy new brass and you just need to chamfer/Deburr - if you don't you can wreck the jacket on your bullets (happens frequently on flat base bullets). As well you can buy a neck turning attachment and clean up your brass if you really want to.

Chamfer, deburr are words I'm unfamiliar with... What do they mean? Are burrs like rough edges that form when you cut metal (i.e. brass)? Also, I notice that the RCBS 3-Way Trimmer (Trim Pro) has to be used with an RCBS trimmer - but which one?

10.) RCBS Chamfer/Deburr tool - recommend you have this tool it is made by Wilson for RCBS and is top notch - Most of my deburring is done by #9 but you should have this on hand for the quick jobbies.

11.) Hand priming Tool (LEE/RCBS/whatever) I use the RCBS as it shares the shell holders from the press but whichever you go with is cool. Don't mess around with priming on your press. First, you can't feel the primer seat so you can't tell if you need to turf brass (loose primer pockets are a no go) and second it is just plain slow. Hand priming is bang on and don't mess around with APS (RCBS) as the stripper clips work but it is just another step but what you want is up to you. All you need to do is dump the primers on the tray, jiggle the tray, and eventually all the primers will be facing up - works good and is fast.

What do you mean by "turf brass"? How is hand priming done? You have to punch in the primer one case at a time? IS it really critical to make this step manual? Or are the dependable ways to automate this?

12.) Primer Pocket uniformer (Lg Primer/RCBS) This little beauty will clean your carbon mess and uniform your pockets in one shot. Some guys will use the brush but if you have choice just get this tool and you are set.

The primer pocket uniformer from RCBS seems to also need the RCBS Trim Mate™ Power Station... Is this worth it? Will I save a lot of time? Or did you have something else in mind?

13.) Brass Cleaning Liquid - Some guys mess around with a tumbler (I have one but I almost never use it) the cleaning liquid is fast, no electricity and easy to use. Take your brass dump it into a tub pour liquid on and let sit, drain liquid back into original container, and rinse your brass. The liquid will last a long time and is cheap. I also like that I don't have walnut dust or crap in the flash hole to clean. Tumbler seem like a kick ass way to clean brass but I find the extra work to be tedious (Cleaning flashholes, checking each case to make sure there is no media in it, etc.)

I'm all for efficiency, but is the liquid messy? And won't you check your cases anyway? (Just playing devil's advocate!)

14.) Save yourself expense and buy LAPUA/NORMA Brass. I have flash hole deburring tools, neck uniforming tools, etc and I used to waste countless hours messing with brass. Now I buy Lapua and just load. Besides standard reloading procedures I don't like the idea of wasting time doing brass prep. Just not worth it. If you want to know how to make yourself crazy I can post on how to take a POS Rem case and turn it into a uniform case but I won't post it here.

I have remington brass from UMC ammo - is this usable? I also have RUAG, Federal GM, Hornady Match, Winchester Match and Federal hunting brass, for a total of 1129 casings... Anything worth noting?

Once you have all these tools, here is my process for reloading:

New Brass:

1.) Neck size all the cases (even Lapua) I have found that sometimes brass gets treated roughly and the necks are not perfect.

2.) Chamfer/deburr

3.) Prime.

4.) Charge Case.

5.) Seat Bullet.

Go out and shoot.

Fired Brass:

1.) Size Case (neck only)

2.) Bump shoulders/Trim (only if required)

3.) Uniform primer pocket (also cleans carbon out)

4.) Soak in liquid cleaner.

5.) Air Dry (depends but if you let it sit for a while it won't be too long)

How long?

6.) Prime.

7.) Charge.

8.) Seat.

How to check your chamber dimensions. I recommend you get your local Gunsmith to Cerrocast your chamber it is not too expensive and I don't recommend a DIY project as you don't want to mess with that stuff. You can use the mold for all your measurements and can even see where your rifling starts. Hopefully this long post helps.

I'm really afraid to let the local gunsmith get their hands on my rifle. I have seen how they can screw up a simple trigger job on my friend's old Savage 99C; I can already see them messing this up too. Any competent gunsmiths in the Montreal area besides Dante's? Ok, and once I have my measurements, how do I proceed?

Once again, MANY thanks for taking the time :). It is greatly appreciated and would serve as a good sticky. :cool:
 
Here are the notes I gave out at the ORA reloading clinic for new shooters.

Brass Preparation

Neck turning is not required. If the brass needs turning buy better brass. Winchester is very good, requiring a little prep. Norma and Lapua are best, with Lapua lasting longer. Norma and Lapua require no preparation other than mouth chamfering and sorting by weight.

What's neck turning?

Virgin brass. A minimum of 500 cases is required.

Chamfer all case mouths. I put a Lee Valley reamer in my electric drill and then clamp the drill in a vise.

Sort the brass by weight. You need about 5 plastic tubs. I use coin tubs from the casino. Label them in increments of 0.3 grains.

Winchester brass should have all the flash holes skived on the inside to remove flashing. Do this with an electric drill clamped in a vise. Use a special tool or a 1/8” drill bit to just touch each flash hole with a drill. (Touch the hole on the inside.)

Once fired brass can be full length sized en masse before the above steps or the individual tubs can be sized as needed. Do not size all the way to the bottom if a lesser amount will allow the cases to chamber.

Finished brass should be stored in 50 round boxes. Label the box on the inside with the brass weight. Load and fire all brass once before loading any for the second time. Neck size only if to be used in same rifle.

Neck size the neck about 80% of the neck length. Size neck down about 3 thou smaller than neck diameter when loaded. This is done best with a bushing sizer or by using a conventional neck sizer with the neck button removed from the rod. If the button won’t come off, use the rod from a smaller caliber. This increased neck tension improves accuracy by increasing initial pressure on ignition.

You need to elaborate here... What's a bushing sizer, neck sizer and neck button for that sizer?

By neck or full length sizing with no neck expander button the cases will not stretch as much and will probably never need neck trimming for length.

When full length sizing a large quantity of brass, I like to use Lee lubricant. This is a squeeze tube of a water soluble cream. I but about 100 pieces of brass in a 4 liter plastic tub with a 1 inch worm of cream smeared along the tub walls. I then swirl the brass around in the tub. This is best done in a tub with a lid. This will lube all the cases and put a little bit inside the mouth to make the neck size easier.

After sizing the cases can be individually wiped clean with a paper towel or washed in the dishwasher. Put them in a cloth bag.



Loading

Prime cases with a thumb seater – RCBS or LeeAuto Prime. The primer seater on a press has too much leverage and there is no “feel”. A thumb seater is much more uniform.

Best primers are Federal Match and CCI Benchrest. For magnum size cases, Use CCI Bench rest.

Throw powder charges a bit light and bring to spec by pinching powder onto an electronic scale. An electronic scale is much easier to use than a balance beam, but a balance is just as accurate – just slower.

What's a powder charge? Is this just another word for the amount of powder used in a casing?

After filling all cases on the loading block, visually check all rows to see that all cases are filled and uniform.

Bullets should be seated with an inline seater. I use a Bonanza. The Hornady is similar.

Plastic ammo box should be labeled with the load recipe.

After loading, return the powder in the powder thrower to the correct container. This reduces the risk of it being miss-identified later and being put in the wrong container (contaminating the powder) and it also helps maintain the correct moisture content. Water content is used by the factory to fine tune the powder burn speed.

If you have multiple containers of various vintages and lot numbers of the same powder, it would be a good idea to mix it all together so you have a consistent powder for as long as possible. Each lot of powder is a bit different, and some lots are very different, requiring new load development.

Powder
A double base powder is more temperature sensitive than a single base. Best powders, in order (for 308 and 223) are:
Vit N140
Vit 150
Varget
RL-15
4895

I'd like to reproduce, as closely as possible, the recipe used for Federal Gold Medal 308 Match ammo... My rifle seems to adore this stuff; I've shot all my best groups with it. That having been said a memeber here (Arrowhead) said that the recipe is 42.5gr of IMR4064, which I notice is not on your list - is that a problem?

Ball powders meter well but higher flame temps increase throat erosion.

In 308 barrel life is about 3000 max in a blue barrel and 6000 in a stainless.

Only 3000 rounds?!?!!?! :eek: That means I have to drop 1200$ every 2 years for a new barrel? Come on... you've got to be kidding me!

Testing
A good Standard Deviation of velocity is required for long range. A good SD does not mean a load will work, but a poor SD will not work. Some preliminary testing can be done at short range and range testing only for loads that show some promise.

SD should be 10 or less. Velocity max listed is control to avoid excessive pressure. Note the desired range of velocities. The max listed should not be exceeded, even if there is no sign of pressure. There is no free lunch. High velocity means hi pressure:

32” Barrel – 2925 – 2975 fps
30” 2900 – 2950
28” 2850 – 2900
26” 2800 – 2850

My barrel is 24.685" with a 1:11 twist... Does that mean (by interpolation) I should be worried at 2750 - 2800?

Note: On a warm day, 2800 fps works fine at 1,000 yards. It may not be enough on a cold spring or fall day.

Testing for accuracy can be done at 300 to 600 yards, off sandbags with a 15X or stronger scope. A good rifle and ammo combo will group under a half minute. Nothing can be learned at 100 yards other than velocity and SD.

I have a 16 power (max) scope, but what's SD?

A 5 shot group tells you nothing. A 10 shot group is useful. Once you have a load you think is your accuracy load, try it several times off sand bags, with a scope, at a longer range – say 500 yards. A single good 10 shot group does not mean the load is good. Flyers can go into the group as well as out of the group.

Start testing with a clean barrel. Make sure at least 10 shots are fired in zeroing the rifle before shooting groups. Have some extra ammo for this purpose. Old test odds n ends are good for this.

When you have found your “pet” load, test it with a half grain of extra powder. It should still work reasonably well. If it does not, or if pressure problems exist, you are too close to the limit and will have a bad time of it on a hot day. This is a critical test if you develop loads in the spring (cool weather).


Shooting

Ammo should be in 50 round box, point up. Don’t cook the primers. Keep box in range bag until needed.

Put fired cases into the box mouth down, so you can keep an eye on fired primers, watching for pressure signs.

Use the entire box before switching to the next box. There is no problem in switching boxes, even if different weight cases. You don’t want to have a collection of ammo boxes at home with a few live rounds each.

If there is pressure - very flat primers, a blown primer or hard extraction – STOP SHOOTING!! There is no point in ruining the brass and risking a disaster. I have seen blown up rifles that blew 3 primers before the shot that blew the rifle. Don’t waste the warning God gave you.

Ammo too hot? Here is a trick that will drop the pressure and let you continue the shoot. Smear a little bolt lube grease around each bullet. This drops pressure about 5,000 psi. Not only will this allow you to continue the shoot, but it will most probably improve the accuracy of the hot ammo, too.

Do I need to really increase the pressure that much, i.e. shoot my ammo real hot? Doesn't this only help erode the throat and initial rifling? My understanding is that factory ammo tends to not be as hot and I've had some really good results with Federal GM; will accuracy suffer that much?

Thanks for that; looking forward to your feedback! :)
 
1.) Shell holder - is it device that you set on the press to allow you to push a case into and pull out of a die. If you don't have one you aren't going to be able to reload. Many cases share case heads (i.e. 222 Rem/223 Rem) but if you are reloading a .308 and then a .223 you need to change the shell holder so that the case can be pushed into and more importantly pulled out of the die.

2.) S-Type and Competition are both Match Dies. As for you and your buddy sharing reloading stuff - this wasn't mentioned earlier so I would recommend you both share the dies you get as both of you are shooting the same calibre (.308 Win) As you are sharing recommend you get the Competition die. Once you set the die - write down the setting/bushing you are using and you are golden. The bushing is what does the neck sizing so you there is no performance difference between the Comp/S-type die but simply the ease of setup/repeatability of settings.

3.) Redleg is referring to the fact that most boltactions (turn bolts) turn the bolt head as it is going into the chamber. This "camming" action provides extra leverage in pushing cartridges into the chamber. So if you don't Full Length Re-size then in your particular rifle you may encounter difficulty in having the cartridge go in/seat. If you are using brass fired only in your rifle you shouldn't have this problem - regular trimming and not mixing brass from your buddies rifle will ensure that you are good.

4.) Competition Seater is the type of seating die I recommend - It screws into the press and allows you to seat bullets.

5.) You need a funnel because the pan holds the powder and without a funnel you will spill powder everywhere. Trust me you need one.

6.) Sizing Wax - a type of lubricant to help the re-sizing process. There is a great deal of force involved in re-shaping a brass case. If you don't use a lubricant you will have the case stuck in the die (NOT FUN).

7.) Yes - burrs form on brass when you cut it hence you need to clean them off.

8.) "turf" is slang for toss in garbage. Yes you want to seat primers yourself - no you don't want to automate this step. Keep in mind that the first thing your gun does is ignite the primer. It is critical that primers are seated properly so you have consistent ignition. This isn't hard and is fairly quick with a hand priming tool. Once you are comfortable you can prime 3-5 cases/minute

9.) RCBS Primer pocket uniformer can be used in a hand tool (handle), power drill, or the case prep center. It is your call on what you want to spend. I would say get the hand tool or try the drill before you spend the big bucks on the case prep center. A lot of what you will decide to buy will be determined by what you can tolerate/want sped up during the reloading process.

10.) Liquid is not too bad messiness wise - it washes off and I wrap the brass in a towel. Yes you always have to check your cases but punching out media from flash holes is more tedious then visually inspecting.

11.) Those cases will all work but be aware that if you ever change any component (bullet, primer, or CASE) you need to work up a new load. That is why I recommend you stick with one brand of case otherwise you need to load powder on the lower end of the velocity spectrum or you risk damaging your rifle or even hurting yourself. Never mix components (i.e. use Federal primers, differing powders, cases, bullets) and use the max loads - you will need to work your way up to them.

12.) Air dry for about a day. You can go less if you really need to reload but I find I am cyclical in my reloading one day is cleaning brass on 1 calibre and then priming another calibre, etc. You can do the same thing if you buy enough brass (i.e. 500+) Do groups of 200 in one station.

13.) Get a COMPETENT Gunsmith with a good reputation and getting a cerrocast is very simple. The actual job is not hard but I don't recommend that you do it yourself.

From you second post:

14.) Neck turning is used to uniform the brass (why I recommended that you get Lapua or Norma Brass) it may be required on Lapua/Norma brass but not the extent that Win/Rem would need. It ensures that bullets are centered in the neck and there isn't excessive brass on one side vs the other.

15.) Neck sizer - he is referring to the bushing (Neck Bushing) that sizes the outside of the neck (and the expander ball the pulls out from inside the neck - sizes the brass from inside the neck). Basically, he is saying don't use expander as this is the device that causes the brass to stretch and isn't really necessary - neck tension refers to how tight the neck is and how much pressure is created when firing the cartridge (if it is tighter you will see more pressure less tight less pressure). Neck button is on the de-priming portion of the die (If you look at the sizing die there is a little rod that pops the primer out) he is saying get a smaller one that doesn't actually size on the way out.

16.) Powder charge - how much powder is in the case (measured in grains)

17.) IMR 4064 is a good powder for .308. Gand is mentioning some of the best powders to use (Viht is produced by Norma, Varget is Hodgon but is temperature insensitive) That being said IMR 4064 used to be considered "THE" powder for the .308 Win.

18.) 3000 rounds is a ball park figure and Gand is referring to match grade accuracy. It isn't like one day your rifle will shoot .5"@100yds and then bang 3"@100yds. You will see a gradual increase in the size of your groups. I would say if you aren't shooting matches against top competitors and wanting to hit small things at long distance you will see more in the number of 6000 rounds before your groups will be too large for long distance shooting. Changing barrels is part of shooting so you might as well get used to that idea. Even at 6000 rounds I doubt you will need to change a barrel more then 1/2-3 years.

19.) Yes and no regarding pressure. Your rifle shouldn't be pushing a bullet a magnum velocities but unless you have a chronograph you won't know for sure. Pressure signs are discussed in every reloading manual read it carefully.

20.) SD- Standard Deviation - how much your shots are varying from your mean velocity shot to shot. He is saying 100yds won't give you a good indication of LR shooting only LR shooting will. A lot of guys will say my rifle shoots .5 MOA at 100yds so that means I am able to shoot .5 MOA at 500yds and 1000yds. That is not true at all as loads will have varying performance at longer range.

21.) Yes - higher pressure is not good for your throat. Throad erosion can't be helped but more powder does mean faster erosion. I would say don't worry about that kind of stuff and shoot your rifle until the accuracy isn't there and change the barrel and shoot some more. You will find that time will have passed you by faster before the money to change barrels becomes an issue.
 
Thank you Glock for answering his questions for me. And I agree with what you say, too.

Redman asked "Do I need to really increase the pressure that much, i.e. shoot my ammo real hot?" I was confused at this question, becasue I did not advocate loading hot. But it occured to me that my notes did not specify I was talking about the the 308 loaded with 155 gr bullets. If you are thinking 168's, then yes, those would be too hot.

And yes, IMR4064 is an excellent powder, but seldom recommneded outside of target rifle circles because it meters poorly. if you are weighing every charge, it is very nice.

Red, I think you should find someone who loads who can help you set up and get started. Loading is a simple thing to do, after someone shows you.
 
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