Are H&K's really worth the cash??

Clobbersauras

Clobbersauras

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I gotta know, are H&K's really worth the cash? There's a G36 on the EE for $9500 and a UMP on for $7000...OUCH! I'm sure they are fair prices based on what the current owners paid, but are they actually worth the cash?

What are you paying for with an HK? Exclusivity? Ultra reliability? Do you get access to some secret German club? I mean c'mon HK, it can't cost that much more for you to produce a rifle than other major manufacturers...I don't get it...

I've fired one HK (my buddies PSP) and it'a a hell of a pistol but HK black rifles are so obscenely expensive I have to know what you get for the cash.

Someone please enlighten me.
 
The UMP is mine.

Worth is a funny word, isn't it.


  • If you are buying one because you think it will shoot better than 2x $3500.00 rifles worth, you'll be disappointed.
  • If you are buying one because you think your neighbor will melt with envy, offering up his Porsche, teen asian concubines and cocaine stash in trade -- you'll be disappointed.
  • If you are buying one because you know you've always wanted one and ALWAYS get what you want -- then you'll quickly realize that there aren't many (12, as I understand it), and there never WILL be more in Canada.

Point 3 is poignant one. Supply and demand is a #####.


IMO, they are less money than a quad, fun to shoot, rare as mice nuts, and I'd never otherwise have the opportunity to shoot one. Hence, it has been well worth the $7k I paid for it. Hell, I know guys here in town who shoot $1000.00 of ammunition in a given month, let alone payments for collectibles. YMMV.

But if you have to sell your pig, 3 chickens and the family pet to pull it off, its not likely for you.
 
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sprint said:
The UMP is mine.

Worth is a funny word, isn't it.


  • If you are buying one because you think it will shoot better than 2x $3500.00 rifles worth, you'll be disappointed.
  • If you are buying one because you think your neighbor will melt with envy, offering up his Porsche, teen asian concubines and cocaine stash in trade -- you'll be disappointed.
  • If you are buying one because you know you've always wanted one and ALWAYS get what you want -- then you'll quickly realize that there aren't many, and there never WILL be more in Canada.

Point 3 is poignant one. Supply and demand is a #####.


IMO, they are less money than a quad, fun to shoot, rare as mice nuts, and I'd never otherwise have the opportunity to shoot one.
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Good points - so in the case of the UMP it's a rarity issue. I suppose the G36 is the same situation?

I think you are wrong about point number two though...If I was your neighbor I would be green with envy...then again I'm a gun nut....:redface:



....mmmmmmmmmmmmmm asian concubines.........
 
I've never owned a G36, but I understand it to be even more rare.

Kako911 on these boards would be a good person to weigh in on this point.
 
I would say no. There are nice to shoot and fun... but novelty isnt worth 7k
 
HK is not overly friendly towards Canadian civilian sales.

I'll leave it to importers and dealers to answer that question more succinctly.
 
sprint said:
...teen asian concubines...
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Wow... I think this is the first reference to "teen asian concubines" I've seen on gunnutz. :D

In my neck of the woods, such experiences can be had cheaply compared to owning HK black rifles registered into the Canadian system. :p

On the prices in the EE... as other people have noted, it's just supply and demand. The "real" price of an semi-auto UMP with pinned 5-round mags (that is, minus the corporate policies - and mistakes - that have created this scarcity situation - where just a few of these firearms are registered into the Canadian system) is probably not much more than what we pay for something like an HK45 pistol - maybe $1,500. Marstar sells the MP5A3 for $1,950 to police agencies. The UMP is supposed to be a cheaper alternative to the MP5.

It's a bit like the B&T TP9... why don't people lust over that
"SMG"? Obviously it is because you can order as many of them as you want from Wolverine. Same with Swiss Arms, AR-15's, etc., etc. If we couldn't buy new ones, the ones that slipped throug the cracks would command high prices.

Now people are going to pay (and later hope that others will pay) premium prices for short barrel AR's with flash hiders, etc. because we can't get them out of the U.S. anymore. Same with Finnish "AK's" in the EE. High prices because you can't just order up a restricted AK from China for $300.

On the plus side, now it looks like we are going to be able to get Type 97 for a lot closer to what the "real" (non scarcity/ridiculous) price is ($850). We are also going to be getting Chinese M4's and other lower priced stuff.

Ever notice how those expensive rifles come up on the EE every few months anyway? These guys that put $6 to $10 K into them are just renting them. I could have probably bought 4 or 5 UMP's (9mm and .45), 2 or 3 G36's and 1 MP7 in the EE in the couple of years I've been on this board. At my home range I have not seen an MP7, but people certainly have UMP's, G36's (no not conversions, but we see those too), PS90's, PS2000's. If you want to rent one, no problem. I don't think they are all that rare - mainly becuase people don't keep them that long anyway.
 
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I have the same question about Swiss Arms rifles and especially the CQB. Is it $3000 due to 'rarity'? I see quite a few of them around.

Is it twice as good as an AR to justify the double price? I have no idea, but I suspect it's something else.
 
Clobbersauras said:
I gotta know, are H&K's really worth the cash? There's a G36 on the EE for $9500 and a UMP on for $7000...OUCH! I'm sure they are fair prices based on what the current owners paid, but are they actually worth the cash?
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They cost that much because of their collector value. There's only a handful of of civilian-owned G36's and UMP's in Canada - or anywhere in the world for that matter.
 
There is only one answer, YES.

Like SIG and other high quality items , they are worth it, if our wallets are capable of the outlay.
 
ghostie said:
Wow... I think this is the first reference to "teen asian concubines" I've seen on gunnutz. :D

In my neck of the woods, such experiences can be had cheaply compared to owning HK black rifles registered into the Canadian system. :p
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Sooooooo,

CGN night at Ghostie's place then FTW? :wave:

Seriously though, I think you've got the "renting" thing mostly right. FWIW, I also went through an excellent AWSM this last year, but felt it didn't quite scratch what I was looking for.

Right now, I'm all about the M1A. Because its a superior rifle?
Ahahahahahahahaha *breath* ahahahahahahahahahahaha

But I DO love to tinker with them, and it will occupy my long winter nights quite nicely, and the s**t is non-restricted. THAT matches my other hobby -- my new 2008 700fi Rhino :p

So ask yourself seriously, how much money have you EVER lost off a firearm purchase?



Silverado said:
I have the same question about Swiss Arms rifles and especially the CQB. Is it $3000 due to 'rarity'? I see quite a few of them around.

Is it twice as good as an AR to justify the double price? I have no idea, but I suspect it's something else.
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Again, "twice as good" isn't the underpinning of price. Nor is the Swiss Arms twice the price of every AR. My LE6920 was a $3k rifle.

Again, boils down to supply and demand. If people will pay $4k for a new HK M4, then I guess that is what it is worth.
 
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Dr.Lector said:
why????? :confused:
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Because they were obtained in violation of German law. This point has been discussed on this board so many times that it probably deserves its own sticky. Germany has a law that prohibits sales of "military firearms" to civilians, including civilians in other countries. UMP and G36 are considered to be military firearms (yes, even the semi-auto versions) by the German bureaucrats and therefore cannot be sold to private citizens. A few units managed to make its way into the hands of Canadian owners because a number of years back, some enterprising dealer lied to HK and told them that the guns would be going to the "movie industry". It's unlikely that the same trick will work once again, so unless Germany decides to reverse its anti-gun stance (which is highly improbable), you will not be seeing any more of these guns.

People like to ##### and complain about HK not being "civilian friendly", but they fail to realize that as a German-based company, HK has to comply with German law. When the German government tells HK that they cannot sell you "military-style" rifles, HK has to comply.
 
sprint said:
Sooooooo,

CGN night at Ghostie's place then FTW? :wave:
Click to expand...

I'll set you up. :D Vancouver does have a few things going for it.

BTW - despite the craziness of our laws, and the economics, and HK's policies, and all that b.s., that UMP you have in the EE is a real thing of beauty. Frankly I would be shocked if you don't get your price for it within a few weeks. There isn't a single guy or gal on here that wouldn't love to have that in their collection, at least for awhile. Same with Pat911's G36, and the others that have been in the EE.
 
Putting more than 3K on one rifle is quite a lot, and this is coming from a guy with a 55k cushy gov job.

You have to want it really f*ckin' bad for that price. ;)
 
Not really.

What about when that guy makes $155k and buys a new truck every year. (pretty plain Jane vanilla here in oil country.) How about $255k like a master electrician who's hobby budget covers small aircraft?

Or how about north of $500k like an entrepreneurial engineer ?

Case example. My brother wanted one of those Cheytac M200 rifles from the movie shooter. Period. He didn't care what it cost and didn't save his pennies for one. He just said get one - knowing that it could have cost $30k or $40k or whatever to land it in his personal safe. Less than a sports car anyway. (he cannot - they are made from unobtanium and impossible to get at any price.)


My point is, its all pretty relative. Several guys I know could have a different color for every day of the week with less stress (% of yearly income) from investment than I can do with one. And none of those guys make over $1m a year. (meh - ok - wife says "1 exception." But he's a dentist with a senior practice and a recording studio in LA, and makes me envious for not going to Dental School instead. :p)

It wasn't really a stretch for me. My guess is that the guy (or gal) who picks these up will be in the same boat or better than me. (which in reality, isn't too tough to do).



I WILL grant you that it IS luxury pricing. While money is good, people will pay it. When the economy goes, so does the value.
 
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