More ponderings on the TSX....

blargon

blargon

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After wading through the "130 TTSX" thread, I have got to thinking about my .308 win. Right now I'm shooting 165 IB in it, but have a couple boxes of 168gr TSX for it as well.

With the penetration attributes of the TSX bullet, I'm beginning to think that the 150gr TSX would serve me just as well as the heavier ones, on large game such as moose, while providing a flatter trajectory.

Barnes data suggests the 150gr @ 2900fps, would retain 2200fps at 300yds, with 1700 flbs of energy.

The 168gr @ 2700fps, retains 2100fps at 300yds, with 1750 flbs of energy.

Not much difference really. The wind drift with 10mph wind is 7" for the 150, and 6" for the 168, at 300yds.

Any thoughts??
 
I cannot imagine any problems with the 150 TTSX, even on moose. I have shot a couple "Swampdonkeys" with the 300 Savage and the 150 Partition at 2825 fps MV. No issues at all, even at 265 yards. The TSX will out-penetrate the Partition in most instances, so, I would say, go for it. Of course, the 168 will work just fine also. Regards, Eagleye.
 
Not something I'd lose any sleep over. Personally, I'd go with the one that shoots best from your rifle..........
 
sheephunter said:
Not something I'd lose any sleep over. Personally, I'd go with the one that shoots best from your rifle..........
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Not really losing any sleep, just wondering if the flatter trajectory would be more beneficial in the long run. (long shots) I guess its doesn't really matter, as I won't be shooting much past 350 anyway. Oh well, enjoy my rantings....:)
 
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blargon said:
:) Not really losing any sleep, just wondering if the flatter trajectory would be more beneficial in the long run. (long shots)
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Not if it doesn't shoot as well out of your rifle and are you really going to gain much at the distances you'll encounter hunting moose? What do you consider a long shot? Run it through the ballistic calculator and I'm sure you'll find that both are a hold on hair from 0-300 yards!
 
Barnes bullets and their "long-for-weight" profiles, provide higher BCs than conventional bullet construction and have long been the darlings of the speed crowd. I first started using Barnes XLC in a 338 mag because of what i could do with the 175 and 185. They were great moose bullets just not real reliable in the expanding department, which in the long run really made no difference as everything shot with them died.
All the bullet choices available today has created the enviable problem of too many choices. Only you can decide when you've crossed the line into the land of diminishing returns.
 
I find that TSX bullets are most effective when driven relatively hard. In my 300 win mag the 168 gr TSX expands AND penetrates better than it does in my son's 30-06. I have only been able to get one animal (large moose broken off shoulder, blew out a rib on the way in and was caught under the skin far side)to hold onto a well placed TSX from the magnum, but we have recovered three shot out of the 06. They were a zebra, a gemsbok and a Kudu, all were smaller than a moose by a considerable margin.

I haven't used the 168 gr TSX in my 308, mostly because I use the gun as a deer only rifle, but also a bit because I want to make sure it doesn't fall below minimum expansion velcities. I would use the 150 gr TSX at 308 velcities rather the larger 168 gr.
 
How do figure it expands better at higher speeds when you are recovering the bullets shot at lower speeds? Rapidly expanding bullets are the ones that remain in the animal....not pass through.

Not sure what you think minimum expansion velocities are with a TSX but I'll guarantee they'll open up just fine with a .308 at 0-300 yards. You may not get pass throughs but that's not a function of inadequate expansion.




martinbns said:
I find that TSX bullets are most effective when driven relatively hard. In my 300 win mag the 168 gr TSX expands AND penetrates better than it does in my son's 30-06. I have only been able to get one animal (large moose broken off shoulder, blew out a rib on the way in and was caught under the skin far side)to hold onto a well placed TSX from the magnum, but we have recovered three shot out of the 06. They were a zebra, a gemsbok and a Kudu, all were smaller than a moose by a considerable margin.

I haven't used the 168 gr TSX in my 308, mostly because I use the gun as a deer only rifle, but also a bit because I want to make sure it doesn't fall below minimum expansion velcities. I would use the 150 gr TSX at 308 velcities rather the larger 168 gr.
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sheephunter said:
How do figure it expands better at higher speeds when you are recovering the bullets shot at lower speeds? Rapidly expanding bullets are the ones that remain in the animal....not pass through.

Not sure what you think minimum expansion velocities are with a TSX but I'll guarantee they'll open up just fine with a .308 at 0-300 yards. You may not get pass throughs but that's not a function of inadequate expansion.
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TSX kills are far more dramatic at higher velocities, the exit wounds are most impressive and the monolithic nature of the bullet means you don't have to worry about it coming apart at high velocity. The faster you drive them, the deeper they penetrate AND expand. It's what make them special in the first place.

The ones I have recovered all look identical, just like a Barnes commercial, all four weighed more than 165 grs with four perfect petals expanded to two times calibre. From the 300 they blow right on through 400lb to 700 lb animals at all the ranges I've killed them at.

The shot at the moose that managed to hold it in was from about 250 yards, somehwat downhill, took out a rib on the way in, top of the heart, both lungs, made a nice hole in the far shoulder blade I could put my index finger through and got caught in the skin are the far side just past the blade. I defy another expanding bullet that weighs only 168 grs to penetrate like that. On other forums guys have posted that they were dissappointed by the results of heavier for calibre TSX's and it is pretty muich unanimous amongst those who hunt with them alot is less weight/more velocity is better.
 
This first one came out of the far hide of a Gemsbok I believe shot at about 200 yards shot with a 30-06 at about 2800 fps muzzle velocity
kalaharioryx166.jpg



This one came from the moose shot at a similar range(slightly more) at over 3200 fps at the muzzle. They both weighed the same but the second one expanded more.

2006baytree035.jpg
 
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Martinbns, from the pics, it appears that both bullets expanded to the full limit of the hollow point. But the higher impact velocity of the second bullet forced the petals along the shank making it appear shorter, yet the unexpanded portion of the shanks are the same length. While I prefer the .30/06 performance, clearly a hit from either bullet should settle matters in short order and illustrates why the TSX is an excellent choice for those who like high velocity. If only Barnes would lengthen the depth of the the hollow to allow 2/3rds of the shank to expand on the heavy bullets as is the case with the .308/130.
 
Boomer,
If you want more expansion from a bullet, while retaining a solid shank the Trophy bonded Bear claws might be right up your alley. Predictably they will penetrate less but that is the trade-off.
 
Boomer said:
Martinbns, from the pics, it appears that both bullets expanded to the full limit of the hollow point. But the higher impact velocity of the second bullet forced the petals along the shank making it appear shorter, yet the unexpanded portion of the shanks are the same length. While I prefer the .30/06 performance, clearly a hit from either bullet should settle matters in short order and illustrates why the TSX is an excellent choice for those who like high velocity. If only Barnes would lengthen the depth of the the hollow to allow 2/3rds of the shank to expand on the heavy bullets as is the case with the .308/130.
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What would happen if you took a tiny drill, like 1/32" or 1/16" and drilled into the center to that depth? Would that cause it to expand to the depth of the hole? :confused:
 
Boomer said:
Martinbns, from the pics, it appears that both bullets expanded to the full limit of the hollow point. But the higher impact velocity of the second bullet forced the petals along the shank making it appear shorter, yet the unexpanded portion of the shanks are the same length. While I prefer the .30/06 performance, clearly a hit from either bullet should settle matters in short order and illustrates why the TSX is an excellent choice for those who like high velocity. If only Barnes would lengthen the depth of the the hollow to allow 2/3rds of the shank to expand on the heavy bullets as is the case with the .308/130.
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The angle is different, the one from the 300 win mag actually did expand further down the shank. My point was that the monolithic TSX is the only bullet I know of that both expands and penetrates further when driven harder. The original question is about using it in a 308 and I don't use them in that cartridge because I am convinced that any just about any bullet will penetrate and expand at those velcities.
 
Demonical said:
What would happen if you took a tiny drill, like 1/32" or 1/16" and drilled into the center to that depth? Would that cause it to expand to the depth of the hole? :confused:
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hey, this is almost as good of an idea as you had a few years ago with cutting the back half of a 500 grain FMJ off to shoot in your 45/70 :p


Blargon, I would have confidence in either bullet, 150 or 168. If it was me and I was going to pick only one to try it would be the 150 grain in 308.
 
todbartell said:
Blargon, I would have confidence in either bullet, 150 or 168. If it was me and I was going to pick only one to try it would be the 150 grain in 308.
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I should have bought some 150's, but I already have 2 boxes of the 168's sitting here....
 
Demonical said:
What would happen if you took a tiny drill, like 1/32" or 1/16" and drilled into the center to that depth? Would that cause it to expand to the depth of the hole? :confused:
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Who knows?

Maybe cause the petals to drop off easier

Maybe cause the whole thing to blow up

Maybe Expand wider and penetrate deeper, forming the PERFECT hunting bullet...I am sure Barnes wouldn't have thought of it?:p

As much as I like to fool around with bullets, Id' first ask "Will modifying the TSX make it kill any better?";)
 
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