Today at the Canadian War Museum

Sounds like they could use a new director. I would also suggest if lending items to any public display you should have something in writing and signed stating they acknowledge it's your property on temporary or indefinite loan. Good museum management or not, curators can change and on a word who is to remember what arrangements were made.

As for the No1 in the case, it's misidentification is pretty bad as it would be stamped right on the rifle, sheesh. But as for it state of incompleteness, I respect the fact that is likely the condition the rifle was returned in (you must read the story to get the context), and that they made a decision to honour the gift and the rifle's history by not replacing its missing parts. The rifle is not being displayed as being a proper example of that model of weapon, so I'm good with that.
 
If you think the War Museum is a pathetic monument to our armed forces, as I do, then the Juno Beach center in Normandy will truly have you puking.
My wife and I took one of our sons and his girlfriend,they are both serving in the army,to Vimy Ridge and the Normandy beaches last week.Vimy is astounding and should be visited by all that are able,do try and make the effort.
The Juno beach center in contrast ,is a monument to some over paid government hack.Not a memory to the valour of the men who landed but a tribute to our First Nations!Go figure.It's dominated by a tacky souvenir shop and the largest display is one for the First Nations,tepees and bead work.
Avoid it like the plague and go to the British and American beaches.
 
TRG21 said:
If you think the War Museum is a pathetic monument to our armed forces, as I do, then the Juno Beach center in Normandy will truly have you puking.
My wife and I took one of our sons and his girlfriend,they are both serving in the army,to Vimy Ridge and the Normandy beaches last week.Vimy is astounding and should be visited by all that are able,do try and make the effort.
The Juno beach center in contrast ,is a monument to some over paid government hack.Not a memory to the valour of the men who landed but a tribute to our First Nations!Go figure.It's dominated by a tacky souvenir shop and the largest display is one for the First Nations,tepees and bead work.
Avoid it like the plague and go to the British and American beaches.
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Something a Liberal/socialist would do,..everything touchy feely , trying to change the image of war from what it really ,..i bet the people in charge of these museums never served in the armed forces at all,...
 
x westie said:
I bet the people in charge of these museums never served in the armed forces at all,...
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Nor should they have had to. But they SHOULD at least have an educational background in military history or have a strong interest in acurately protraying the topic the museum is dedicated to.

What First Nations culture has to do with the Juno Beach landing is beyond me. Our First Nations have a proud cuture that needs to be honoured. I would suggest the Museum of Civilization in Gatineau, QC - NOT a military history museum in Normandy.

I get so irritated by stuff like this :(
 
can14 said:
I have an original ww1 shoulder stock for a webley .455 pistol that they have in their display with the bayonet attached. I offered to give it to them to make the display correct. But......no answer to...fax....e-mail......
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I wrote an article for an upcoming issue of the CSSA magazine. I sent a Word Doc of the article to them as a courtesy. No reply at all. I had also contacted them prior to going to Ottawa, no reply then either.
 
This does not suppise me as the 'Canadian War Museum' is a very politically correct organisation (remember the vets dispute with canadian war museum) and they will avoid contact with pro-gun organisation at all costs. This is a shame as they obviously need some military gun owners input to help them get their exhibits right
 
louthepou said:
What really hit me were the numerous French mistakes. Geez, I can stand a few soon after opening, but it's been a while...

Lou
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Hey Lou....Nice pics! I still haven't made it to the musuem.

You know what is funny, I betcha they were all written by Quebecers! :)
 
Claven2 said:
Nor should they have had to. But they SHOULD at least have an educational background in military history or have a strong interest in acurately protraying the topic the museum is dedicated to.

What First Nations culture has to do with the Juno Beach landing is beyond me. Our First Nations have a proud cuture that needs to be honoured. I would suggest the Museum of Civilization in Gatineau, QC - NOT a military history museum in Normandy.

I get so irritated by stuff like this :(
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They have some very good historians at the War Museum, some of whom I know. The problem is they have to be generalists, not rivet counters. Identifying this mk or that mk for a display, on the grand scheme of things, is not particularly important. It is for the masses, many of whom don't know a Mauser from a Lee Enfield.

They also have very small staffs. For example, Jim Whitham is the collections manager for Transport and Artillery. All the arty and vehicles in the museum are under his control. He is also the only employee in Transport and Artillery (at least this is how it was a few years ago). He has to single-handedly research the vehicles, acquire and trade for new ones, and supervise restoration. This does not lend itself to thorough research. He relies on volunteers, some of whom are former CF members. The newly restored Panther tank was done almost entirely by volunteers if I remember correctly - I saw it when it was in bits and pieces last fall.

I'm sure the War Museum employees would love to have big staffs and the ability to research every piece of kit to the nth degree, but unfortunately that is not possible. We notice many errors about guns because those are what we study and have a passion for... would anyone notice of a radio on display had a slight discrepancy in naming? Or a canteen?

I'm not trying to apologize for the errors at the museum, there are many. I am simply trying to give a bit of an insider's point of view :) The current director of the War Museum is a good guy, but like his predecessor he's not a historian. He lets the historians do their work while he manages the business. Letters to him, as well as the CEO of the Canadian Museum of Civilization (owners of the War Museum) and the ministry of heritage and culture pointing out the need for more staff will go a long way.

That said, the poor long lee bolted to the wall makes me weep :( Same with the fact that every gun on display is deactivated, to the best of my knowledge... The Ross's, the MP-38s, stg-44, everything. Thank the firearms act for that. :mad:
 
TheIndifferent1 said:
They have some very good historians at the War Museum, some of whom I know. The problem is they have to be generalists, not rivet counters. Identifying this mk or that mk for a display, on the grand scheme of things, is not particularly important. It is for the masses, many of whom don't know a Mauser from a Lee Enfield.

They also have very small staffs. For example, Jim Whitham is the collections manager for Transport and Artillery. All the arty and vehicles in the museum are under his control. He is also the only employee in Transport and Artillery (at least this is how it was a few years ago). He has to single-handedly research the vehicles, acquire and trade for new ones, and supervise restoration. This does not lend itself to thorough research. He relies on volunteers, some of whom are former CF members. The newly restored Panther tank was done almost entirely by volunteers if I remember correctly - I saw it when it was in bits and pieces last fall.

I'm sure the War Museum employees would love to have big staffs and the ability to research every piece of kit to the nth degree, but unfortunately that is not possible. We notice many errors about guns because those are what we study and have a passion for... would anyone notice of a radio on display had a slight discrepancy in naming? Or a canteen?

I'm not trying to apologize for the errors at the museum, there are many. I am simply trying to give a bit of an insider's point of view :) The current director of the War Museum is a good guy, but like his predecessor he's not a historian. He lets the historians do their work while he manages the business. Letters to him, as well as the CEO of the Canadian Museum of Civilization (owners of the War Museum) and the ministry of heritage and culture pointing out the need for more staff will go a long way.

That said, the poor long lee bolted to the wall makes me weep :( Same with the fact that every gun on display is deactivated, to the best of my knowledge... The Ross's, the MP-38s, stg-44, everything. Thank the firearms act for that. :mad:
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Being underfunded and not being able to research everything to the N'th degree is NO EXCUSE for completely misidentifying a display piece. It just isn't. You would never see that in the national war museum of any other self-respecting country. PERIOD.

I mean come on... they have an 8mm Bren labelled as a .303 issued to troops at Juno. that's inexcusible!!! The caliber was written RIGHT ON IT and they still screwed it up. What about all the French errors? It's the FEDERAL GOV'T. Give me a break.

I have ZERO sympathy for the band of incompetents at the CWM - even if you DO know some of them.
 
They also have very small staffs. For example, Jim Whitham is the collections manager for Transport and Artillery. All the arty and vehicles in the museum are under his control. He is also the only employee in Transport and Artillery (at least this is how it was a few years ago). He has to single-handedly research the vehicles, acquire and trade for new ones, and supervise restoration. This does not lend itself to thorough research. He relies on volunteers, some of whom are former CF members. The newly restored Panther tank was done almost entirely by volunteers if I remember correctly - I saw it when it was in bits and pieces last fall.
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thats who i talked to but I got fed up with the run-around I don't expect people to kiss my arse but i would like some help through the door with out having to build it first
 
They also have very small staffs. For example, Jim Whitham is the collections manager for Transport and Artillery. All the arty and vehicles in the museum are under his control. He is also the only employee in Transport and Artillery (at least this is how it was a few years ago). He has to single-handedly research the vehicles, acquire and trade for new ones, and supervise restoration. This does not lend itself to thorough research. He relies on volunteers, some of whom are former CF members. The newly restored Panther tank was done almost entirely by volunteers if I remember correctly - I saw it when it was in bits and pieces last fall.
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thats who i talked to but I got fed up with the run-around I don't expect people to kiss my arse but i would like some help through the door with out having to build it first

and even before that I volunteered my research skills and was basically told "we have enough"
 
Claven2 said:
Being underfunded and not being able to research everything to the N'th degree is NO EXCUSE for completely misidentifying a display piece. It just isn't. You would never see that in the national war museum of any other self-respecting country. PERIOD.

I mean come on... they have an 8mm Bren labelled as a .303 issued to troops at Juno. that's inexcusible!!! The caliber was written RIGHT ON IT and they still screwed it up. What about all the French errors? It's the FEDERAL GOV'T. Give me a break.

I have ZERO sympathy for the band of incompetents at the CWM - even if you DO know some of them.
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That is a careless mistake, I agree. But it was a Bren, as the label said? In that case, the fact that an 8mm was on display instead of a .303 will make no difference to the overwhelming majority of the viewing public who have never seen a Bren before in their lives, regardless of caliber.

I did not spend enough time at Les Invalides in Paris to notice any technical errors, but they certainly bent some history in their descriptive panels about WWII.

Any large museum will have mistakes that an expert in the field will notice. The best thing to do is volunteer to help make it right :)
 
I hear you, but offers to help at the CWM are universally met with indifference and a non-response of any kind. I know. I've offered ;)

I once sent them a 5 page letter outlining the most obvious mistakes that came to mind after a visit. I received no response despite sending registered mail. None of the problems I outlined were changed either.

Their only excuse is incompetence as far as I can discern.
 
TheIndifferent1 said:
They have some very good historians at the War Museum, some of whom I know. The problem is they have to be generalists, not rivet counters. Identifying this mk or that mk for a display, on the grand scheme of things, is not particularly important. It is for the masses, many of whom don't know a Mauser from a Lee Enfield.
:
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Tell your historian friends to take pictures and double check identities with the milsurp crowd on here. This is an incredibly knowledgable community.
 
I have a couple of Friends who work there also, they want to portray a general impression of an era or event. The details are not that important, their point is they cannot be experts on every detail that cover events from Vikings to Korea. So the little details that irks us so much as collectors are secondary to the management.
 
I hear you, but offers to help at the CWM are universally met with indifference and a non-response of any kind. I know. I've offered
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exactly

Tell your historian friends to take pictures and double check identities with the milsurp crowd on here. This is an incredibly knowledgable community.
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but you don't get it ..they don't care!
 
JP said:
I have a couple of Friends who work there also, they want to portray a general impression of an era or event. The details are not that important, their point is they cannot be experts on every detail that cover events from Vikings to Korea. So the little details that irks us so much as collectors are secondary to the management.
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I guess that's what separates word-class museums like the Smithsonian or the British Museum from shoestring outfits like Canada's museums.

A good analogy is this:

How likely do you think it is that the British Museum would mis-identify a second kingdom Egyptian sarcophagus as a third kingdom piece? Or a Ming vase as being from the Yuan dynasty?

After all, to the public they're just trying to give the general feel of ancient Egypt or to show the general beauty of ancient chinese pottery, right?

WRONG.

To do that would seriously tarnish the reputation of those WORLD CLASS institutions of preservation and learning.

It's just that simple. Do we want out national museum that recognizes the sacrifice of untold lives to be world class, or third world?

Me, I would prefer world class.
 
oh i agree Claven

what people forget is a museum it to preserve history for future generations however un pc it may be

when facts are begin to erode .....so does the museum .....and history
 
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