Help Identifying a Lee Enfield

slushee

slushee

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Okay, this is going to sound really really silly, but i Need help identifying my Long Branch 1943 No 4 Mk 1* Enfield.

Specifically it has some differences from my original No 4 Mk 1 that I sold six months ago.

Firstly, it has Made In England stamped on top at the breach end of the barrel. I am unaware of any Enfield having this stamp. Secondly, to remove the bolt u start with a closed breach, bring the bolt back about 1 ", swivel up the bolt head to the vertical postion through notched section of the rail and remove. This is entirely differernt then my original one that had you pull the bolt all the way back, press a lever and THEN swivel the bolt face to a vertical position.

On the side of the barrel at the breach end, it has stamped:

303" 2.222" TON PER (picture of a square) "
BNP
16.5 (or 18.5, not sure)

There are crossed swords stamped all over this rifle in the shape of an X.

Stamped on the side in bold and clear letters is No4 Mk I* Long Branch 1943

My bolt head has the stamped crossed swords with an F in the top area. It also has 2 stamped on it.

My magazine has an arrow pointing up on it with m/56 as well as 0C

The sight as a very very large peep when flipped down (almost 1/4"), and when flipped up it has a rectangular peep sight that has an adjuster know on top. This sight is marked from 2-13.

I'm really floored at the different way to pull this bolt out compared to my original one. I would love for anyone to tell me what any of these marks mean and maybe point towards an identification site to see if I can figure out where this gun came from.
 
As Rob says, If your other LongBranch is a No4 Mk1 (no star), the bolt head will be lifted up at the rear, after pushing down on a spring-loaded catch. Hardly an easy one handed eyes closed operation... While a No4 Mk1* has a section machined off on the receiver near the front, to allow the bolt head to be lifted up easily. Quite an easier way, that's why they made the change.

Lou
 
RobSmith said:
Standard Mk1* bolt as far as you're describing it ... The Mk1 is the one that had the bolt-release catch.
Click to expand...

Ahhh fair enough, I didn't realize the * upgrades included this modification. Any good sights to help start identifying the meaning behind the stamps and such?

And on the tip of the barrel, there is a smaller diameter section (about 2" long starting at the tip) with a large ring clamped onto it that has a dovetail to hold the front sight. Is this part of the original assembly? I would love to take off the sporter wood and get 'er back into a military repo stock.
 
Hmm, a picture would help. Standard No4's front have a section to hold the bayonet, might be what you describe. Without that portion of tha barre intact, can't retrofit the rifle to its military configuration without another barrel...

Lou
 
303" 2.222" TON PER (picture of a square) "
BNP
16.5 (or 18.5, not sure)


British Commercial proof test markings, English last requires that all fiearms sold on the civilian market must be proof tested before being sold to the public.
 
It's not made in England...

The stamp stands for EXPORTED from England, after being released from service. This stamp was added probably at the same time as the BNP stamps, mentioned above.

Neal
 
Lee Enfield

.
Many of these rifles were sold after WWII. The "Made in England" stamp had to be put on for importation into the USA...it is the Country of Origin. Several British companies sporterized these surplus rifles for the commercial market.

The ring you describe for the front sight, and the dovetail, was common for the sporterized rifles.

Check the barrel for words such as "Surrey", which was one model name used, or "CAI" which was a Century Arms identifier.

It probably has had the barrel shortened a bit to remove the bayonet attachment lugs.

.
 
I think what your looking at for the front sight is the front sight base without the protective ears, thats why it looks different.

the barrel should stick past the front sight base about 2" and have bayo lugs, if the barrel has been cut, your buggered for restoration. A picture would help here.

Now the Mk1* was not an upgrade over the Mk1, rather it was the approval of war expedient modifications that made manufacture easier.
 
Yeah the barrel only sticks out past that thing about 1/2 " .. so looks like I'm going to be keeping her as is. I'm looking for an identifier (as it sounds like it was sportarized and then sold to the civilian market) but I cannot seem to find one. It maybe that I should remove the wood and look underneath.

On a side note, there is some green corrosion on the base plate, what would be the best chemical to remove this with?

Thanks a bunch for all your help. I'll do my best to get a pic and see if we can't figure out who sportarized this 'ole girl.

Too bad I will never know where this rifle saw action .. What I thought was rather interesting was that it was the Mk 1* (with the war expedient manufacturing shortcuts) yet it still has the milled rear sight. I would have thought it would have the stamped sight. Oh well, they probably added the milled rear sight to it during the sportarizing process!

EDIT - can you guys give me some direction as to where to look for an identifying mark regarding who sportarized this and released it to the civilian market?
 
rear sight should of been a 2 position flip sight, perhaps a stamped one but I think those came out later then '43

Brass but plate, clean with Brasso metal polish

and yes by your description the barrel is bobbed,

you could make a tanker out of it :D
 
slushee said:
Yeah the barrel only sticks out past that thing about 1/2 " .. so looks like I'm going to be keeping her as is. I'm looking for an identifier (as it sounds like it was sportarized and then sold to the civilian market) but I cannot seem to find one. It maybe that I should remove the wood and look underneath.

On a side note, there is some green corrosion on the base plate, what would be the best chemical to remove this with?

Thanks a bunch for all your help. I'll do my best to get a pic and see if we can't figure out who sportarized this 'ole girl.

Too bad I will never know where this rifle saw action .. What I thought was rather interesting was that it was the Mk 1* (with the war expedient manufacturing shortcuts) yet it still has the milled rear sight. I would have thought it would have the stamped sight. Oh well, they probably added the milled rear sight to it during the sportarizing process!

EDIT - can you guys give me some direction as to where to look for an identifying mark regarding who sportarized this and released it to the civilian market?
Click to expand...

If it isn't stamped with Parker Hale or Churchill or Whitworth, then it may have been done by a private individual who wanted a lighter hunting rifle...there's no absolute likelihood of finding an identifying mark.
 
slushee said:
Yeah the barrel only sticks out past that thing about 1/2 " .. so looks like I'm going to be keeping her as is. I'm looking for an identifier (as it sounds like it was sportarized and then sold to the civilian market) but I cannot seem to find one. It maybe that I should remove the wood and look underneath.

On a side note, there is some green corrosion on the base plate, what would be the best chemical to remove this with?
Click to expand...

I have cleaned up a few of those mungy green verdigris encrusted SMLE WWI buttplates, and on one of them I sliced my finger open real good...it was like a knife and I was being careless...I started thinking about the Spanish Flu being entombed behind the buttplate, or some nice Phosgene or something...:eek:
 
The BNP mark stands for "Birmingham Nitro Proof", meaning that it was proofed at the Proof House in Birmingham. Long Branches were originally proofed in Canada, of course, so this is a post-War marking. Many of these rifles were sportered in Birmingham after the War.

Operating pressure of the .303" Ball Mark VII round (which is what the rifle is proofed for) is 18.5 LONG tons per square inch. A long ton is 2,240 pounds, just a little more than one of those silly metric tunnies (which I always thought was a fish!).

Proof pressures were well in excess of this figure, but the rifles were stamped with the operating pressure rather than the test pressure. This is standard British practice. The proofing process was interesting, consisting of a Proof round (headstamped PROOF or with a Q code, but not both) followed by an inspoection, followed by an OILED Ball round, followed by another inspection. The thrust on the boltface must have been incredible!

These critters do stretch their brass if you use top pressures, but you can keep brass stretch to an easily-managed level by:
1. loading to lower pressures: download for 10% reduced velocity, which also gives better accuracy AND better barrel life AND less fouling

2. keeping your brass trimmed to length

3. fireforming a batch of brass in a particular rifle and then segregating that batch of brass for that rifle, and neck-sizing.

Yes, I am all in favour of segregation! For brass, anyway!

Important point: do have fun.
 
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