Taking PE90 into the US

cybershooters

cybershooters

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Fellow CGNers, I need your help...

For a long time now I have been trying to get a Form 6NIA to take my PE90 into the US, but I keep getting turned down because ATF says it has the receiver of a machinegun.

For those of you unfamiliar with the law, 18 USC 925(d)(3) prohibits the import of rifles like the PE90 into the US because it is not "suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes", however that test is not applied to temporary imports on Form 6NIA.

I have provided extensive documentation to ATF including the head of the Import Branch and the Technology Branch proving that the receiver is not that of a machinegun, however they have basically taken the approach now of not responding to me, not sure why, probably because they don't want to admit to making a mistake.

To make any progress I really need two or three other people to apply for import permits to prove to ATF Technology Branch that my applications are not an aberration and they're going to need to revisit the issue of classifying these rifles for temporary importation.

If you've got a PE90 (any model as imported by TSE, but it MUST have a barrel longer than 16 inches), I'd appreciate if you could take the time to apply for a US import permit for it.

To do this you need to apply for a Form 6NIA as normal (i.e. in duplicate with a copy of a US hunting licence) and include with it a signed statement that says:

"I declare under penalty of perjury that the firearm to which this application relates does not include the frame or receiver of a machinegun as defined in 26 USC 5845(b)".

Also include a photo similar to the one below, it must show the serial number on the receiver and also the underside of the rail under the auto sear block must be clearly visible in the same picture.

Mail the application to:

ATF Firearms and Explosives Imports Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg
WV 25401

Please let me know if you get an approval or a denial. Thanks!

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sig rifles

you will not get a permit because the swiss arms rifles are from the 550 series and prohibited in the us. There are very few sig 550 rifles in the us because they didn't get there in time before they were banned. The few that sig had in the us then were shipped to canada, which in turn banned them. The swiss arms rifles are supposed to be a combination of the 542 7.62x51 rifles and the sig 550 5.56 rifles. Both of which are banned in the usa. Even with the permit, it is still up to the border services as to letting it go in. You could end up loosing the gun and getting charged! Thats why sig usa is making a new gun for the us market and manufacturing it there.
 
Technically if you've got a Black Special, Classic Green, Blue Star, etc...you don't have a PE-90. Regardless, I don't think you're going to get a permit to temporarily import your rifle. Just about every SIG variant, except the domestically produced 556 are on the US no-no list. That's why genuine SIG 550s & 552s, etc... are selling for $10,000-$20,000 in the US today. Limited supply and high demand as only a few made it into the US before the import ban went into effect.
 
can14 said:
you will not get a permit because the swiss arms rifles are from the 550 series and prohibited in the us. There are very few sig 550 rifles in the us because they didn't get there in time before they were banned. The few that sig had in the us then were shipped to canada, which in turn banned them. The swiss arms rifles are supposed to be a combination of the 542 7.62x51 rifles and the sig 550 5.56 rifles. Both of which are banned in the usa. Even with the permit, it is still up to the border services as to letting it go in. You could end up loosing the gun and getting charged! Thats why sig usa is making a new gun for the us market and manufacturing it there.
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He already stated this does not apply for 6NIA.

Good on you, but they may kick it just because they can. They may not allow it on the grounds that it could end up permently in the Us if it were stolen, etc. But I am eager to see.
 
What's the cheapest US hunting license you can buy on-line now? Might as well go through the process to see what kind of a hornet's nest we can stir up, hmmm? :)
 
Savage said:
Try if you like the Swiss Arms are not allowed in the US and a hunting license wont make any difference. but good luck
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The hunting license is a requirement for bringing any firearm into the US. Doesn't matter if its a handgun, shotgun or rifle.

The idea behind making the application is to initiate a review of current US policy on this particular firearm that technically isn't a 550 variant. While it probably won't work, it doesn't hurt to challenge official government stupidity every now and then, whether its Canadian or American. I believe that's the original poster's idea....
 
The Hunting Lic req is for a non resident alien to bring a firearm in.
Resident Aliens (Green Card holders), Resident Citizens and Non Resident Citizens do not need the hunting lic.

The BATFE has already determined the PE-90 to be a machine gun - as the rest of the series too. Its the same way you cannot bring a L1A1 or C1A1 into the US - as they consider them MG's - this applies to both Temp and Perm imports. I&TB is not going to reconsider anything as they have no consequences for ignoring you - your not a citizen or resident and you dont have a congressman/woman or senator that you can write a nasty letter to do something to.

I wish you well but its tilting at windmills - unless you find a non resident citizen who wants to attend a shoot - who may have a leg to complain above BATFE
 
KevinB said:
I wish you well but its tilting at windmills - unless you find a non resident citizen who wants to attend a shoot - who may have a leg to complain above BATFE
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I was born in LA and would love to help... except I dont have a SIG... I am looking at gettin one BUT currently dont have one.
 
I say leave this alone - We dont need someone's one man crusade to screw things up. Use an AR instead.

But at least we know it is Cybershooter now if any bad things happen, and know exactly WHOM to crucify!
 
can14 said:
you will not get a permit because the swiss arms rifles are from the 550 series and prohibited in the us.
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Read the top of the post, they can be approved for temporary import into the US as the sporting purpose test does not apply. ATF is turning me down because they think it is a machinegun, which it isn't. The reason you can take AR-15s into the US temporarily is solely because the sporting purpose test does not apply.

These guns are definitely NOT machineguns, they are not converted machineguns, they do not contain any machinegun parts. This is not a FAL-type issue. I have already provided them with substantial documentation proving this. All that matters is that it is a Title 1 firearm, which it is.

ATF has simply made an incorrect technical determination.

If they can make an incorrect determination on this rifle, they can surely do it on many other types of semi-automatic rifle so it's important to get them to correct their mistake.

However the only way of nudging them in that direction is for more people to make applications so they actually spend some time on the issue.

PIECE Keeper said:
Will this have any potential negative impact on the applicant or the Canadian system by bringing further international attention to the Swiss rifles?
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I can't see how, ATF currently consider them to be machineguns when in fact they are merely semi-automatic rifles, so if RCMP or anyone else in Canada got wind of it I can't see how getting a major US agency to say they're not machineguns does anything but help Canadians.

X-man said:
What's the cheapest US hunting license you can buy on-line now? Might as well go through the process to see what kind of a hornet's nest we can stir up, hmmm? :)
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Utah - http://wildlife.utah.gov/licenses/

Hunter education licence is only $10 for a year, you will need to phone them if you don't have a US SSN or ITIN as their on-line system requires you provide one.

I have it writing from ATF that the Utah hunter ed. licence qualifies for a Form 6NIA.

KevinB said:
The BATFE has already determined the PE-90 to be a machine gun - as the rest of the series too. Its the same way you cannot bring a L1A1 or C1A1 into the US - as they consider them MG's - this applies to both Temp and Perm imports. I&TB is not going to reconsider anything as they have no consequences for ignoring you - your not a citizen or resident and you dont have a congressman/woman or senator that you can write a nasty letter to do something to.
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I'm afraid you're wrong, ATF will allow the Swiss Arms SG550-series in as Title 1 firearms, they have approved Form 6s for that purpose to SIG-Sauer in New Hampshire for LE sales. They are not machineguns.

And actually I do have legal recourse but I'm not going to go into that until some other people apply and I can determine whether I'm being treated uniquely.

I don't want to make a major issue out of this - it's basically a bit of stationary and a postage stamp (assuming you already have a US hunting licence) and I need to change the mind of someone who is simply wrong.

Why he's made an incorrect determination I don't know, he could have just been in a bad mood that day but I am 100% sure that he is wrong. Like I said, if they can do it incorrectly once, they can do it incorrectly again.
 
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greentips said:
I say leave this alone - We dont need someone's one man crusade to screw things up. Use an AR instead.

But at least we know it is Cybershooter now if any bad things happen, and know exactly WHOM to crucify!
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If the RCMP were to revoke the Non restricted status they would have already have done so. If an OIC were to occur there goes the Non Restricted status and not just on your beloved Swiss Arms and all others that are non restricted .It is easy for them to get an OIC passed than reverse a standing policy less hassles and OIC are not required to have public input or notifiying the public of a pending OIC
 
cybershooters said:
I'm afraid you're wrong, ATF will allow the Swiss Arms SG550-series in as Title 1 firearms, they have approved Form 6s for that purpose to SIG-Sauer in New Hampshire for LE sales. They are not machineguns.
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No I am afraid you are Wrong,the BATFE will not allow the Swiss Arms Rifles to be imported on a TIA 6 period end of story.A simple problem just appeared on your horizon note bold text . Under BATFE the importation for Law Enforcement Agencies /Government Agencies are exempt from BATFE restrictions all the Dealer has to do is fill out the form with an end user and Viola its approved. so unless you are Licensed manufacturer selling Sig /Swiss arms rifles to an LEA or GA you will only be banging your head on the wall well past the point of a good sized headache. But try if you like I do wish you well on this futile endeavor
 
550's

The ATF has 445 SIG 550's and 45 SIG 551's on the approved list. They do not consider the 550 a sporting rifle suitable for hunting purposes. This gun isn't banned because it is considered a machine gun. It is banned because it is not considered a sporting rifle.
 
greentips said:
I say leave this alone - We dont need someone's one man crusade to screw things up. Use an AR instead.

But at least we know it is Cybershooter now if any bad things happen, and know exactly WHOM to crucify!
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I am becoming a bit concerned because several of your recent posts are on the boundary of appeasement and openly anti-gun. Or am I just not getting your humour?
 
svt-40 said:
I am becoming a bit concerned because several of your recent posts are on the boundary of appeasement and openly anti-gun. Or am I just not getting your humour?
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ON the contrairy,

Pushing back barrier and having the barrier collapse on him and us is what he wants to avoid. If you are invited and have the privilege of eating dinner at your neighbor's and he tells you: just don't pet the dog he doesn't like it, why the hell would you ?
 
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