Shotgun only areas...Are we safer?

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lackeyse

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Where I hunt, local laws require hunters to use shotguns only for deer. With the advancement of slug gun and sabot slug technology do you think we are safer in terms of stray slugs as opposed to rifle bullets?
I realize the debate re slugs vs rifle bullets is a hot one but I don't think creating shotgun only areas have made our world any safer.
The days of rifled slugs being fired out of 28" smooth bore barrel are slowly fading and they are rapidly being replaced by deadly accurate slug guns. The performance of premium slugs is increasing from year to year.
Here is an article I found. Very interesting test results.
What do you think? Are we safer?

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_11_53/ai_n20512665
 
Some may not like the rules, but out here shotgun areas are meant for shotguns with shot only and no single projectiles. There has to be at least eight pellets for it to be legal here in BC.
The big advantage the new high tech shotgun slugs have over the older foster type is accuracy and perhaps a little extended range.
I don't believe in every rule the gov't makes ,but shot only in more populated areas makes sense.
 
Those jurisdictions in North America that dictate slug only deer seasons will sooner or later come to the realization that little separates the new wonder slugs from conventional jacketed center-fire rifle loads. It's a pretty sure bet that when this occurs new legislation will mandate smooth-bores only, lead foster slugs only, or as suggested above shot only. Sometimes technological progress has no practical advantage, and this might be such a time. Now that we have rifled barrels, copper slugs, and 12 bore rifles which can be loaded to center-fire rifle pressure levels and approach .458 performance; change is in the wind.
 
sealhunter said:
I suspect they are more dangerous than ever. Turn them into archery only
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:runaway:


Boomer said:
It's a pretty sure bet that when this occurs new legislation will mandate smooth-bores only, lead foster slugs only, or as suggested above shot only.
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Changing the regs to multi-projectile will only increase the amount of wounded game. I know I for one would be carrying a pocket full of slugs anyway.;)
 
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Just out of curiosity.......What exactly is the difference between premium shotgun slugs and premium rifle bullets? Aren't slugs such as XP3's, copper solids, Barnes Xpander and Accutip just over sized rifle bullets wrapped in a plastic sabot. I realize the thought of a premium bullet being fired out of 12ga with a muzzle velocity of 2000ft/s seems threatening to some but I for one enjoy all variations of firearms. What is not to like about launching a 385gr nosler partition 12ga slug at 2000ft/s accurately. No one is trying to take away big bore dangerous game rifles or even compare the two. Is it not safe to say that the slug gun does hold its own in terms of performance. Once again I don't believe our communities are safer with shot gun only areas. Especially when the 12ga performs right along with standard rifle calibres within the limits of most hunters abilities.
I can't count how many times I have read posts on here where hunters state that they shoot game at ranges less than 300 yards most 200 and under. Hmmm where does the slug gun fit in at those ranges:eek:.
I would like to see an actual short range test say 25yds just to see how devastating they really are. Then we can debate if they would be suitable as a bear defence gun.
 
Just out of curiosity.......What exactly is the difference between premium shotgun slugs and premium rifle bullets? Aren't slugs such as XP3's, copper solids, Barnes Xpander and Accutip just over sized rifle bullets wrapped in a plastic sabot.
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I'd say yes but apparently if you are a true believer, the difference is monumental and you'd be safe firing off the slugs at the dartboard in the basement.

Ben aside, I think slugs are going the way of muzzleloaders and for those that actually keep up with technology, there's little doubt that the advancements have been monumental in the past few years and these slugs are indeed offering higher velocities than many centrefire rifle cartridges and bullet construction that was only reserved for premium rifle shells a short few years ago. I'm certain that the performance has surpasssed the intent of many laws, just as it did with muzzleloaders.
 
lackeyse said:
Exactly. If only counsel around here understood that. I wish they would bring back rifle hunting. Wishful thinking on my part:mad:. Oh well I will just keep doing the best I can with what is offered in terms of shotgun/slugs.
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Yes I agree with Gate....but.....

The only problem is that a rifle bullet will travel a lot further than a slug. And all our swat team hunters would try to take 500 yards shots. Which isn't the smartest thing in a populated area

Until we can weed out all the idiot hunters, laws like this will need to exist.

btw interesting that the shotgun only applies to deer and you can go predator hunting with anything up to a 270
 
cdngunner said:
Yes I agree with Gate....but.....

The only problem is that a rifle bullet will travel a lot further than a slug. And all our swat team hunters would try to take 500 yards shots. Which isn't the smartest thing in a populated area

Until we can weed out all the idiot hunters, laws like this will need to exist.

btw interesting that the shotgun only applies to deer and you can go predator hunting with anything up to a 270
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I am not sure if you read the link in my first post so I have copied and pasted part of it. This from a safety stand point.

Ah, but the big surprise comes at 0-degrees of elevation which would be more or less a typical shot at a deer on level terrain. Here the rifle, shotgun and muzzleloader projectiles travel 1,408', 840', and 686' respectfully plus ricochet distances of 3,427', 4,365', and 3,812' respectfully. Now the total distances traveled by the projectiles are 4,835' for the rifle, 5,205' for the shotgun and 4,498' for the muzzleloader.

"The smaller cross sectional area of the .30-caliber projectile and its shape contributes to a higher loss of energy on impact and, after ricochet, the 30-caliber projectile tends to tumble in flight with a high drag. Test data confirm that the 50-caliber projectile's larger cross sectional area and its shape contribute to less energy loss on shallow angles of impact and, after ricochet, the projectile exhibits less drag which results in a greater total distance traveled.
 
Most of the people who hunt in the same area as I do are the once a year hunters anprobably still use the smooth bore. Althought the army test are interesting, I dont think they translate well into real hunting situations in this area.

Because of
A. a lot of people stand hunt, so we are looking at -15 deg anyway.
B. most of the hunting is done in bush where trees will stop the slug before it has a chance to ricochet.

Rifled shotguns are limited at best to 200 yards. Whereas a rifle can reach out to say 500 yards.

In my opinion the danger of going to rifles would be that these tree stand sitters would trade in their shotguns for rifles and hit the ground Knowing(or thinking) that they can hit a deer from 400 yards now. And takng more risks.

In the densly hunted area of southern Ontaro I have never had slugs wizz over my head. Yet in the sparsely hunted regions of Northern (mid actuall) Ontario there have been several occasions when I have had projectiles go by me close enough that I could hear them.

Again stats hold up on a range but I'd like to see them do the same thing in "REAL" hunting situations taking in consideration the moron factor. And in my opinion, which is based on MY experience,giving people around here the opertunity to use rifles would only multiply the effect of the moron factor
 
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Very true. It will take a long time before hunters realize and accept what is going on with the advancements of shotgun hunting. So yes I do agree that most think of slugs as a sub standard hunting round(compared to any rifle caliber).
I often sit on the edge of open hay fields where I can hear the sounds of children getting off of there school buses. Do I feel that they are safer from unsafe morons with a modern slug gun and wonder/uber slugs.......not at all. Although it does make the uninformed feel better.
 
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cdngunner said:
btw interesting that the shotgun only applies to deer and you can go predator hunting with anything up to a 270
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Hell, in this area I can use my .338WM for coyotes and groundhogs, as we have no caliber restrictions here. Yet for bear and deer I can only use a shotgun or ML. Try and figure that out.
 
Rifled shotgun barrels produce better accuracy than smooth bores and better accuracy is a good thing provided the hunter can make use of the difference. If the wonder slugs make it easier for the hunter to hit what he aims at, then I'm all for them. But I'm no longer sure what separates the rifle from the shotgun in the minds of legislators (or for that matter in the minds of those charged with enforcement) in that a rifled shotgun is allowed to fire a rifle bullet, but rifles are not allowed. The new wonder slugs when combined with a fully rifled fixed barreled bolt action "shotgun" provides you with what is essentially a powerful rifle. Particularly if one handlloads those slugs in brass cartridge cases. Does the fact that the ammunition is sized as a gauge rather than a caliber dictate what is a shotgun and what is a rifle? If so how does one classify the .410 which is a caliber measured shotgun? One wonders if a hinge action shotgun with a .45/70 barrel insert in place is a shotgun or a rifle? If the wonder slug is loaded with a 400 gr .458 bullet, what is the difference?

As good as they might be, the combination of the wonder slug and the rifled bore is not for everyone, and will limit the usefulness of the shotgun in some applications. Those who wish to shoot upland game while deer hunting are better off with a smooth bore. Those who carry a shotgun for bear defense and who intend to shoot scare cartridges as well as slugs are better off with a smooth bore. More often than not a rifled barrel will cause a cracker shell to detonate in the barrel. If the wonder slugs significantly out-penetrate the traditional slugs, due to a their higher SD, stronger construction, and higher velocity; they would be a poor choice for bear defense in built up areas or crowded camp grounds. I'm not aware of any double gun offered with rifled barrels (combination guns aside) but the waterfowler who uses his double barrel goose gun in the deer season is better off with a smooth bore unless he has a set of rifled barrels.

The most important question anyone can ask when contemplating the purchase of a new product is, "What is it for?"
 
Boomer said:
Rifled shotgun barrels produce better accuracy than smooth bores and better accuracy is a good thing provided the hunter can make use of the difference. If the wonder slugs make it easier for the hunter to hit what he aims at, then I'm all for them. But I'm no longer sure what separates the rifle from the shotgun in the minds of legislators (or for that matter in the minds of those charged with enforcement) in that a rifled shotgun is allowed to fire a rifle bullet, but rifles are not allowed. The new wonder slugs when combined with a fully rifled fixed barreled bolt action "shotgun" provides you with what is essentially a powerful rifle. Particularly if one handlloads those slugs in brass cartridge cases. Does the fact that the ammunition is sized as a gauge rather than a caliber dictate what is a shotgun and what is a rifle? If so how does one classify the .410 which is a caliber measured shotgun? One wonders if a hinge action shotgun with a .45/70 barrel insert in place is a shotgun or a rifle? If the wonder slug is loaded with a 400 gr .458 bullet, what is the difference?

As good as they might be, the combination of the wonder slug and the rifled bore is not for everyone, and will limit the usefulness of the shotgun in some applications. Those who wish to shoot upland game while deer hunting are better off with a smooth bore. Those who carry a shotgun for bear defense and who intend to shoot scare cartridges as well as slugs are better off with a smooth bore. More often than not a rifled barrel will cause a cracker shell to detonate in the barrel. If the wonder slugs significantly out-penetrate the traditional slugs, due to a their higher SD, stronger construction, and higher velocity; they would be a poor choice for bear defense in built up areas or crowded camp grounds. I'm not aware of any double gun offered with rifled barrels (combination guns aside) but the waterfowler who uses his double barrel goose gun in the deer season is better off with a smooth bore unless he has a set of rifled barrels.

The most important question anyone can ask when contemplating the purchase of a new product is, "What is it for?"
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Please disregard this thread as I understand what you are saying. If legislators catch wind of this reality then for sure we will lose our wonder slugs:mad:. We are better off keeping this under the rug because as a gunnut I appreciate being able to use a shotgun with rifle like accuracy and knock down power. The manufacturers are constantly looking for ways to satisfy the needs of discreet hunters and I hope they continue(supply and demand, especially in the States). So for all that scoff at this please support our cause so that some of us fellow gunnutz can enjoy the remains of what resembles rifle hunting.

By the way, they are for deer hunting in shotgun only areas. And the 12ga slug gun/sabot slug are not new products. Off the top of my head.....I believe they have been around for approx. 18yrs.
 
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Gatehouse said:
Can you find the actual law for that? I dont' think I've ever stumbled across it. Woudl be interesting to see the definition of "shot only"
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I think it says no single projectiles? meaning you'd only need 2? but I haven't looked too closly.

so one slug + one plastic wad = multiple projectiles?? :D:D:D:D
 
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