Blackpowder newbie

When you are talking PELLETS and Pellets only...Pyro and 777 are the same 50gr. BP eqiv. that is why 777 pellets are smaller then pyrodex. The only difference is that 777 is cleaner.
And personally for the FPS gain of 2 vs 3 pellets...3 pellets isn't worth it for the average hunter.
 
Actually...Hodgdon lists 2 50gr equiv. as being the MAX load. And because of the differences in formulation, 777 seems to give a slight boost in FPS as well as being somewhat easier to clean.
 
beefman said:
When you are talking PELLETS and Pellets only...Pyro and 777 are the same 50gr. BP eqiv. that is why 777 pellets are smaller then pyrodex. The only difference is that 777 is cleaner.
And personally for the FPS gain of 2 vs 3 pellets...3 pellets isn't worth it for the average hunter.
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Hmm....300-400 fps velocity gain seems significant to me. In fairness though, you won't see the significant velocity gains in shorter barrels but in longer barells like those found on the Omega and Pro Hunter, the gain is very significant.
 
Sorry, my perspective is based on guy who hunts thick woods or field edges where 100 yard shots would be LOOONG. The laws of diminishing returns...if you add the 3rd pellet you're not getting 50% more velocity. All you are getting is poorer, more hearing damage, and learning to flinch. And from what I have read, 3 pellets of anything maybe way over the pressure capacities of these cheap foreign made muzzleloaders. Better safe then in emergency.(ER that is).
 
so are 209 primers that I use for loading up my 12ga good enough or are the 209 muzzle loader primers "more bang for the buck"?
 
The 209 primers that you use for shotgun shell reloading will most certainly work...the 209's that they advertise for muzzleloading are actually REDUCED in power. It has been found that the regular 209 primers can actually push the bullet forward of the powder charge (through the hole in the pellets) thereby creating an air space between the charge and projectile which is an unsafe condition, and might affect accuracy. This is just what I have read, someone please correct me if I am wrong.
 
No, a 209 primer will not lead to the "short start" condition to which you are referring. It might minutely unseat the bullet from the charge prior to ignition which may lead to a a flyer or two ( a 4" group opposed to a 2"). The primers are a smidgeon cooler as to aleviate the 777 crud ring, and they burn a little cleaner.

I'll stick to the readily available (cheaper by the 100) 209's.
 
It's amazing how someone always has to pick things apart on this site, I was trying to explain to a new shooter the diff. between Black Powder(as he calls it)and the replica powders and the diff. arms they tend to be used in. I would think it important for a new shooter to know the difference, and then he could form an opinion on what is right for him, functionality or historically correct, traditional or easy to clean, but no, someone always knows better!!!
 
They ask the question...we try to answer it. I might be new here but I've been at this a long time...we are all here to learn and to ask questions....and no single persons perspective is more valuable than anothers. And i don't see how we are picking things apart, merely supplying advise and information. Just my 2.5 cents worth.
 
You would be surprised at the number of shooters/hunters that don't know what black powder is! I had one person tell me it was any powder that had a black color as opposed to those that were gray in color! I think it's important to point out the diff. to new shooters, thats all! I also think it's important for new shooters to know the diff. between 777 and BP, it's the least I can do as I don't have the experience that most have on this thread!
 
ben hunchak said:
You would be surprised at the number of shooters/hunters that don't know what black powder is! I had one person tell me it was any powder that had a black color as opposed to those that were gray in color! I think it's important to point out the diff. to new shooters, thats all! I also think it's important for new shooters to know the diff. between 777 and BP, it's the least I can do as I don't have the experience that most have on this thread!
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I didn't know of the difference between 777vsPyrodex vs BP, didn't even know the first two existed, thats why I'm asking all these questions. So thanks for helping me out and also thanks to everyone else for taking the time to explain everything to me. My load will 250grSST sabots, two 777pellets and 209 primers and hopefully they group up well.
 
It's too bad that a new muzzleloader has to be subjected to the holier than thou attitude of some so called "purists". Instead of passing on your considerable knowledge of front stuffers,you're putting a novice down for his choice of firearm. Shame on you!
 
gyman98 said:
I didn't know of the difference between 777vsPyrodex vs BP, didn't even know the first two existed, thats why I'm asking all these questions. So thanks for helping me out and also thanks to everyone else for taking the time to explain everything to me. My load will 250grSST sabots, two 777pellets and 209 primers and hopefully they group up well.
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That's a good load to start with and may be the one you settle on but don't be afraid to experiment with different bullets and powders if you aren't getting the accuracy you want. I've got one Omega that just doesn't like T7 for whatever reason and won't shoot tighter than 1.5 inches with it. With Pyrodex it settles in well under an inch. Lots to learn with a muzzleloader but that's half the fun....good luck!
 
hakx said:
Before you continue to offer any form of guidance to a new guy on this forum who only seeks some direction on the safe use of a firearm to which he is unfamiliar, please check at least three things before clicking that "Submit Reply":

1. The facts,



2. Your disdain towards any form of muzzleloader (except your homebuilt IKEA kits), and



3. Your spelling.



???
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Holy crap chill out, I did not say I had distain for his choice of arm, I think you should check the tude man.

And my spelling of slang you pointed out -GOOD JOB HERO-

The "Ikea kits" I build are true representations of REAL traditional arms made by hand from -wood and steel...Imagine that??

After I found out it was a inline I basicly ceased to post as I dont know about plastic lined sabots and bloody pelletts and 209 or electric ignited whatever.

I think anyone getting into shooting is doing good.

As far as attachments, most basic scopes WILL fit.

And cleaning...I clean all my guns the same = very well, I figure anyone who has a gun does the same.

Now as far as the facts go..What did I post that was not factual?

Any scope will fit, there are all kinds of attachments that can be bought,

and these do shoot like modern arms-

BECAUSE THEY ARE MODERN ARMS!!!



Anyhow sorry to go all defensive..
A good saying from Josey Wales-

Dont pi$$ down my back and tell me its raining.
 
Before this thread spirals too far out of line, I'd like to offer one very practical safety tip for any muzzleloader shooter and one that shows why they are not like modern rifles and that indicating so may be very dangerous.

One of the most dangerous situations you can get yourself into with a muzzleloader is not checking to see if it already has a charge in it and then loading another charge over an existing charge. Trust me, without a regular safety check it's easy to do and is done every year by muzlleloader shooters with serious consequences.

Breech fed guns are simple to check and see if the are loaded by looking in the breech. The only way to safely tell if a muzzleloader has a charge in it is to put a ram rod down the barrel. If there is a load in the barrel, the rod will not go all the way in.

Before you snap caps to dry your powder chamber or beforeyou put powder and bullets down the muzzle, put a ramrod down the barrel first to ensure the gun does not have a charge in it.

That's why saying they are the same as modern guns is dangerous, because they aren't! This was a new shooter asking for advice and I think it only responsible for muzzleloader shooters of all eras to to ensure he does things safely and not let your disdain for these firearms get in the way of common sense.
 
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gyman98 said:
so is it a good idea to mark your ramrod for easy reference?
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Yes, I scribe mine with my most common loads....100 grains and 150 grains but if the gun does not have a charge in it, the ramrod will go all they way into the barrel with MOST guns so no need to scribe it empty.

Another thing to remember is that a load should pushed down the barrel with steady pressure and not tamped down. Start your sabot down the barrel with a short starter, then push it down with ramrod until it contacts the powder and then put short starter ball over end of ramrod and seat bullet with about 32-36 pounds of pressure. There are specialty rods with a flip out T handle that aid in seating but I still prefer my short starter over the rod. It's much easier on the hand and more consistent for me. Consistent loading and seating equals consistent groups.
 
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Another good point !
My wife forgot to fire two caps after cleaning the oil from the bore, and when she fired her first shot, the went bang and ignited,----------but powder closest to the nipple was oil soked and burned like a fuse :eek: took approx 1or 2 secs for it fire. Fortunately she had kept the rifle shouldered and pointing down range.
Ao after you run a patch down to remove any oil in the barrel, fire two caps to burn any oil left in the barrel.
 
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