A good first blackpowder Flinter?

H Wally

H Wally

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It's summer, I've got some spare cash, and I'm thinking about finally buying a flintlock. Anyone have advice on a solidly built ready to go rifle to start off with? Rifled is preferable, but I don't know a heck of a lot about them, so smoothbore is also good. I like the look of the jaeger flintlocks, but once again, maybe that's not what's best to start with.

What would you suggest? What's the best quality and price? I could do a kit, but I've got so many other projects I just want one that's ready to use.

Thanks!
 
You should probably drive up to Heffley Creek between Aug 23 and Aug 31 and see what is on the blanket. Expect to pay up around $1000 for a reasonable one.
I would think you would be better advised to join a local club and try some of their guns to see what you like first before dropping a bundle on something that is well made but that you do not particularly care for. Will also give you a better appreciation for what goes into quality workmanship. There will be quite a few very high quality guns being shot at Heffley if you are there.
You can certainly buy inexpensive guns but you get what you pay for and will end up frustrated. The middle of the road alternative is to buy a semi inexpensive gun then spend another $125 or so on a quality lock to put on it.
Just my thoughts after starting with a cheap Italian kit about 25 years ago or so.

cheers mooncoon
 
Have a look around, some people get annoyed with them after they use them a few times. I picked up a barely use A&H .50 1:66 flinter mountain rifle for $300...things gotta be worth $800. Excellent workmanship, and beautiful wood. Their loss, my gain!!
 
Off the shelf.......I would say Thompson Center (T/C), made in the US of A, best quality and resale value (in case?). They have the rifle and flint etc...Do not compromise on the first one or it will be the last one!!
My first BP was a T/C hawken, I still have it and it is a sure thing on the range when your honour depend on it!!


Go T/C Go!!

Cheers
 
Whatever you get, I figure you could do a lot of worse things than to order a handful (at least) of decent hand knapped flints for it, and study up on how to keep a flint in shooting shape.

I watched one fellow at the range with a flinter, that had a flint on it that had all the edge of a used eraser, and made only a bit more spark.
Figure a shot in every four or five, kind of bad. Most of the shots that did go, were of the long delayed whoosh-wait-whump variety to top that off.
He was demonstrating his knowledge and expertise to a couple of his friends.
Dunno what he'd have done with a decent flint on a well tuned up lock. Probably wondered what went wrong with his authentic old fashioned flintlock, I'd bet.

The firing should be nearly instantaneous, FWIW.

I keep frittering away my money on other things, mostly bills, but I want one of the Track kits, as they seem to offer the best balance between quality components and usable guns for what i am interested in. I'm not trying to recreate anything, just want to have one, and not too interested in a cheesy production flintlock, from the bottom of the makers line of products.
I enjoy working with my hands, too, so I would get a fair bit out of it anyways.

Cheers
Trev
 
trevj said:
Whatever you get, I figure you could do a lot of worse things than to order a handful (at least) of decent hand knapped flints for it, and study up on how to keep a flint in shooting shape.

I watched one fellow at the range with a flinter, that had a flint on it that had all the edge of a used eraser, and made only a bit more spark.
Figure a shot in every four or five, kind of bad. Most of the shots that did go, were of the long delayed whoosh-wait-whump variety to top that off.
He was demonstrating his knowledge and expertise to a couple of his friends.
Dunno what he'd have done with a decent flint on a well tuned up lock. Probably wondered what went wrong with his authentic old fashioned flintlock, I'd bet.

The firing should be nearly instantaneous, FWIW.

I keep frittering away my money on other things, mostly bills, but I want one of the Track kits, as they seem to offer the best balance between quality components and usable guns for what i am interested in. I'm not trying to recreate anything, just want to have one, and not too interested in a cheesy production flintlock, from the bottom of the makers line of products.
I enjoy working with my hands, too, so I would get a fair bit out of it anyways.

Cheers
Trev
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A kit from track is a good idea, I put one together last winter...but an interesting kit for a no frill top quality flinter is available at
http://ww.northstarwest.com/
Check their North west trade gun...history loaded model in top quality materials and good support/coaching from the owner, Matt Denisson.
I highly recommend!!
J
 
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H Wally said:
It's summer, I've got some spare cash, and I'm thinking about finally buying a flintlock. Anyone have advice on a solidly built ready to go rifle to start off with? Rifled is preferable, but I don't know a heck of a lot about them, so smoothbore is also good. I like the look of the jaeger flintlocks, but once again, maybe that's not what's best to start with.

What would you suggest? What's the best quality and price? I could do a kit, but I've got so many other projects I just want one that's ready to use.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I am presently paying off a jager rifle parts kit in 62 cal from sitting fox, very nice high quality components and looks like its going to be a challenging project!!

Though out of all my present arms which consist of Piedersolis ,navy arms and loyalist guns..

I have been getting much service from from the Loyalist long land I built from a kit in their specials section..
Man the thing can really shoot good "for a smoothbore" its really a destroyer of stumps, and never fails to make fire that is when I dont screw up "loose or oddly shaped flint-dirty frizzen wet prime....you get it
Its also a very nice looker.

I myself really like the large locks on military flintlocks.

Cheers
 
Looked at the Northwest trade gun.

No thanks.

Ugly and crude, to my eye. Not at all what I am looking for. An accurate historical representation of a gun that was made as cheaply as could be at the time.

The generic Colonial Longrifle kit from track of the Wolf is pretty decent looking, to my eye, and inexpensive, all considered, but when I order a kit, I think one of the Bivens or Beck kits with a decent upgraded barrel is more the style I'll go with.

Like I said, I am not trying to recreate any particular era, rather, I want something that pleases my eye, and those are more along the lines of what does it for me.

Cheers
Trev
 
trevj said:
Looked at the Northwest trade gun.

Ugly and crude, to my eye. Not at all what I am looking for. An accurate historical representation of a gun that was made as cheaply as could be at the time.
Click to expand...

Some might consider them ugly and crude but they were not cheaply made; the quality of the locks and barrels were no worse than original american and Birmingham guns. There were a few cheaply made ones from Belgium but these were quickly rejected by the customers.
After all of that, I would not recommend a trade gun as a beginning gun; smoothbores can be accurate but they take a lot of learning to shoot well.

cheers mooncoon
 
savage112 said:
Does anybody have any experience with the Lyman Great Plains rifle in .50 flintlock? I would like some opinions on this rifle.
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Same!

trevj said:
Looked at the Northwest trade gun.

No thanks.

Like I said, I am not trying to recreate any particular era, rather, I want something that pleases my eye, and those are more along the lines of what does it for me.

Cheers
Trev
Click to expand...

Same - I am not completely obsessed with historical accuracy, I'm rather looking for something fun to shoot that looks good. Hence why I'm quite open for any number of different rifles, as long as they're fun. I'll have to wait until the local range has a blackpowder day and go visit then I suppose:D

Musketfire said:
I am presently paying off a jager rifle parts kit in 62 cal from sitting fox, very nice high quality components and looks like its going to be a challenging project!!

Though out of all my present arms which consist of Piedersolis ,navy arms and loyalist guns..

I have been getting much service from from the Loyalist long land I built from a kit in their specials section..
Man the thing can really shoot good "for a smoothbore" its really a destroyer of stumps, and never fails to make fire that is when I dont screw up "loose or oddly shaped flint-dirty frizzen wet prime....you get it
Its also a very nice looker.

I myself really like the large locks on military flintlocks.

Cheers
Click to expand...

What did the Jaeger kit cost you, if you don't mind me asking? (I don't know what it is about them, but they look amazing!)

I've kept note of loyalist for a long time, mainly because they have the easiest to navigate site.

How do you find handling flinters in the wet? (I live in a rainforest after all)

bdft said:
You should be able to get a decent TC Hawken for 300.00 or so. I have one in .50 and its a helluva shooter.
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I suppose I should have asked - would people suggest that a cap lock be used before a flinter? I asked about flintlock rifles because of the dual facts of "I like them way more", and they aren't firearms.... Those T/C Hawkens look pretty good, and don't seem like they'll bury me if I decide it's not for me and want to sell. From what I've read, startup costs are another $100 after buying the rifle.
 
savage112 said:
Does anybody have any experience with the Lyman Great Plains rifle in .50 flintlock? I would like some opinions on this rifle.
Click to expand...

One of our club members bought one recently, and it shot great right out of the box, fast lock time,good ignition. It compares to the T/C
except it has a better balance, not so front end heavy.
 
trevj said:
Looked at the Northwest trade gun.

No thanks.

Ugly and crude, to my eye. Not at all what I am looking for. An accurate historical representation of a gun that was made as cheaply as could be at the time.

The generic Colonial Longrifle kit from track of the Wolf is pretty decent looking, to my eye, and inexpensive, all considered, but when I order a kit, I think one of the Bivens or Beck kits with a decent upgraded barrel is more the style I'll go with.

Like I said, I am not trying to recreate any particular era, rather, I want something that pleases my eye, and those are more along the lines of what does it for me.

Cheers
Trev
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It's all in the eye of the buyer!! I agree...I like the NW Trade gun and the Honda Element!!

You like the pretty ones; check the Tulle fusil de chasse or fusil fin...these have the ''je ne sais quoi!!'' they are well documented and have these fancy brass cast parts...

http://ww.sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/

I did a Tulle from ''Track of the Wolfe''; good quality product but I would try Sitting Fox for my next one.

Cheers
J


http://ww.sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/
 
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If I was buying a Lyman Great Plains rifle then it comes down to caliber , a .50 or .54 The .50 makes buying balls or bullets a bit easier as it seems to be more common. The .54 rifle will be slightly lighter in weight as the barrels are the same outside dimension. The .54 is better for larger game than deer , just a bit more oomph . Also don't overlook the Lyman Trade Rifle it balances more like a modern gun as the barrel is shorter than the GP , I got some cheek slap from my Lyman Trade rifle , easy fix with a sharp block plane to take off about 3/32" on the front half of the comb. The Lyman Deerstalker might be the way to go also , short handy gun from what I hear.

Any Lyman is a good gun , you can't go wrong with them.

Strongly advise checking out both guns , throw them up to your shoulder . Go to a Black Powder shoot ....just get your hair cut short first , don't look them in the eye for too long and don't take the lead on the trail walk :yingyang:
 
I'll take a look at the Sitting Fox site when I get home. For whatever reason, the firewall at work is nuking it on the way through.

As an aside, I find the munging of the URL like that kind of difficult to deal with, as it shows as an url, but won't click through. Personally, I'd far rather see, for example, sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com, as I can then copy and paste it into google or whatever, and not have to muck about with it trying to figure out what got changed in the "munging".
Probably just me being whiny. It happens! :D


The Trade guns and Fusils both fail to appeal to me at all.

Just don't look good to me.

And I have no real interest in a smoothbore, in any case.

Were I to be given one, I doubt it would be in my house for long. Useful enough if it was all I had to use to get a deer with, I suppose, but it fails to meet the other things I want of my hobbies, namely to end up with something I have pride in. That ain't it for me. They don't do it.

The trade guns WERE cheaply made. As cheaply as they could be, given that their purpose, first and foremost, was to make maximum profit for their sellers. The Cooey's of their age, basic and functional.
Just as today, with some Chinese merchandise, the Belgians proved that merchandise of any sort could be made as cheaply as the customer was willing to specify. Sometimes that was too cheap!

Cheers
Trev
 
A trade gun cost the HBC about as much as a Brown Bess cost the Board of Ordnance - 20 to 22 shillings.

H Wally - whatever you decide to get, make sure it has a quality lock. Nothing more frustrating than trying to get by with a second rate lock.
 
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Same - I am not completely obsessed with historical accuracy, I'm rather looking for something fun to shoot that looks good. Hence why I'm quite open for any number of different rifles, as long as they're fun. I'll have to wait until the local range has a blackpowder day and go visit then I suppose:D

Malahat Marauders are having a Rendezvous this weekend, best to go Sat or Sun though, only shotgun on Mon.

BTW there is Lyman for sale at ww.muzzleloadingforum.com, $400 nib
 
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trevj said:
The trade guns WERE cheaply made. As cheaply as they could be, given that their purpose, first and foremost, was to make maximum profit for their sellers.
Click to expand...

The trade gun I own and the couple I have worked on and the several more that I have seen were no more cheaply made than the run of the mill Birmingham guns which were in turn better made than cheap Belgian guns.
The reason that people may have suggested starting with a cap lock is that they take a lot less learning than a flint lock. Also, almost any cap lock will work while inexpensive flinters tend to be an excercise in frustration.

cheers mooncoon
 
Took a look at the Sitting Fox site.

About the only thing that I saw there that looked interesting to me was the Mich-i-gun halfstock, that could be turned into a pretty nice more or less "modern" flinter, with some judicious changes in hardware selection.
The cheap looking lock that was shown with it, was off-putting.

Much of what he had was pretty much combinations of the "usual suspects" parts, gathered together in different combinations, and variations of those themes.

Not very much there that was really any better quality, or better priced than anywhere else, unless I was missing something.

Definitely agree on the best lock you can get. Decent flints, as well, and properly hardened frizzens, and yer in the biz.

Check out The Rifle Shoppe, too, if you can stand the flashing crap on their site pages. They have some stuff that is a lot different from the rest of the usual suspects, while they have a bunch of the same stuff too.
Never bothered to order their catalog.


Cheers
Trev
 
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