New CSC Service Pistol

boomer271

boomer271

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We just got the [unofficial as of this post but binding] word from National HQ that the new Service Pistol has been selected for our department, Corrections Service Canada. What can anybody tell me about the HK 2000? Looks like we are stuck with it for the next hundred years (it replaces our S&W Model 10 revolvers which we have been using since Christ was a Corporal, look for a lot of surplus pieces on the market soon!) should I be outrageously delighted or not?

Some of the options they could have selected included the S&W [apparently the model 5946] that the RCMP uses, and the military SIGs. Sorry, I can't tell you prozacly why the powers-that-be-in-their-infinite-wisdom chose the HK, they would not let that info leak down to my pay grade, but any info you have that will make my job as an officer and instructor will be appreciated.

The fact that our Department is still using surplus RCMP wheelguns and will be for at least the next three years is a whole other set of threads.

Thanx for your input!
 
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"it replaces our S&W Model 10 revolvers which we have been using since Christ was a Corporal, look for a lot of surplus pieces on the market soon!"



You will never see these guns sold in Canada. Most likely, they will be destroyed.
 
I've been talking to someone "in the loop" and the H & K is the only pistol that past the selection test.
The M & P failed miserably apparently.
BTW..the RCMP carry the 5946.;)

I'm looking forward to the conversion course, training.
You can't get much better quality then an H & K.
 
The P2000 is about as good as polymer pistols get. I'm surprised CSC did not go for something cheap, like S&W M&P or Glock.
 
great pistol, i really like mine. Too bad I have trouble with the HK triggers, even though I own 4 pistols of theirs:redface:
 
yep,...although I would have preferred the variant Da/SA variant,..or the LEM,...they have decided to go with the Variant #5,...DAO.
 
boomer271 said:
We just got the [unofficial as of this post but binding] word from National HQ that the new Service Pistol has been selected for our department, Corrections Service Canada. What can anybody tell me about the HK 2000? Looks like we are stuck with it for the next hundred years (it replaces our S&W Model 10 revolvers which we have been using since Christ was a Corporal, look for a lot of surplus pieces on the market soon!) should I be outrageously delighted or not?

Some of the options they could have selected included the S&W [apparently the model 5946] that the RCMP uses, and the military SIGs. Sorry, I can't tell you prozacly why the powers-that-be-in-their-infinite-wisdom chose the HK, they would not let that info leak down to my pay grade, but any info you have that will make my job as an officer and instructor will be appreciated.

The fact that our Department is still using surplus RCMP wheelguns and will be for at least the next three years is a whole other set of threads.

Thanx for your input!
Click to expand...

send me your email,...I will send you the write up I did...
my choice was the P2000 or the M&P.
I actually thought they would cheap out and go with the M&P. I was very surprised when I was forwarded the good news.:eek:
 
Striker said:
I've been talking to someone "in the loop" and the H & K is the only pistol that past the selection test.
The M & P failed miserably apparently.
BTW..the RCMP carry the 5946.;)

I'm looking forward to the conversion course, training.
You can't get much better quality then an H & K.
Click to expand...

Any info on the ways in which the M&P failed?
 
There are at least three of these "CSC/HK P2000" threads going on - two in "Pistols add Revolvers" and one in "General Firearms Discussion". The Corrections guys sound like they are pretty excited to get something new.

I've had the DA/SA P2000 in 9mm for awhile now. Overall I think it is very nice. I like it better than the USP. I was hoping that I would like it as much as the SIG 229, but unfortunately in a head-to-head with a SIG it comes in a fairly distant second in my mind. And I don't say that as a SIG groupie. It's an honest opinion based on use of the gun.

The pros of the gun:
1. It is totally reliable - just like the USP.
2. It is quite accurate. Definiately way above a stock GLOCK or something like that.
3. It is quite compact and light, and would be pleasant to carry.
4. The mags are metal and don't look anything like the USP mags.
5. The new (rear) de-cocker is a big improvement over the USP de-cocker (this won't affect the DAO or LEM models though, obviously).
6. I don't use it, but the ambi slide stop is a neat piece of engineering.
7. The fit of this gun seems tighter than the USP. I found the slide/frame play in the USPs to be concerning, even though I appreciate that this theoretically shouldn't affect accurary in a Browning-style action.
8. The sights sit nice and low on the top deck, the way I like it. Shoots to point of aim out of the box without fussing around and trying to adjust fixed sights.

The cons:
1. The grip is too short. The extended floorplates are available for both the hi-cap and 10-round (wings/tabs) mags. Unfortunately evey P2000 imported into Canada so far has the flat floorplates. Wolverine says they can get the extended floorplates for 10-rounders, and I have them on order, but they haven't come in yet.
2. The mag release is too small. It can be quite hard to spring the mag just using your thumb, and when I do that I find I have to shift the gun too much in my hand. The idea for the gun seems to be that it be all rounded off, no snags, etc., but they took this too far with the mag release. It is considerably smaller then the USP mag release. I usually press both sides down at the same time with the P2000, but this is not ideal, especially in a "real world" or competition scenario.
3. I think the gun is a bit light for the kind of accurate shooting I prefer (I know that this is the opposite of my point 3. in "pros"). It would be very snappy in .40 or .357SIG.
4. Try finding parts, mags, hosters or accessories for this gun. It is not impossible, but it isn't easy either. Nothing at Brownells or Numrich so far.
5. The sights it comes with from Germany or not night sights. They are supposed to have some sort of luminosity to them for low-light, but in reality, they aren't really any different than any other white dots. Apparantly you cannot use radioactive materials in any products in Germany.

This is my P2000 thread with the boat-load of pics:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233739

I have two videos of mine on Youtube as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxFUjKXKok4&feature=user
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URnT3dp-JZg&feature=user
 
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the mag release is meant to be used by your trigger finger,...as your finger comes off the trigger,....so not a likely chance of ND/AD.
 
maurice said:
the mag release is meant to be used by your trigger finger,...as your finger comes off the trigger,....so not a likely chance of ND/AD.
Click to expand...

O.k., this makes sense. Because, if you ever pick up a P2000 and try and drop the mag with your thumb... the phrase "WTF" will probably come to mind very quickly.

I always press both sides of the mag release at the same time. If anyone were inclined to look at my Youtube videos very closely, you can see me doing that.

They are neat guns. I'm looking forwards to my mag floorplates coming in. I ordered 3 more mags and 5 extended floorplates so that I can switch everything over to extended. It should be a much more solid hold with those.
 
My girlfriend likes to shoot those Birchwood Casey "Dirtybird" splatter targets, especially the ones with nine 3 inch circles. She was shooting some of these awhile back at around 10 yards and I tried shooting one with my 229. That is the upper target in the picture below. It is good shooting (about average for that gun). It's about 2 inches across.

Then I decided to shoot one with the P2000 (the lower target below). After 5 shots I had a ragged hole right on the bullseye going! I quit after 5 shots, mainly becuase I wanted to see what that group measured out to! It measures out to about 3/4 inch. So, I just post that to show... the P2000 has great potential for accuracy if people get used to it. I, myself, do not feel completely comfortable with it yet, but it is a good solid platform for sure.
SIGvHK.jpg


On the issue of the mag release... it is not my favorite feature on the gun. I think Walther has the better ambidextrous mag release system going. Theirs is more of a paddle that forms parts of the trigger guard on either side - and is easier to manipulate - and can be manipulated with the thumb. The HK "chicklet" system is o.k., but I do not view it as industry leading or anything. Also, on the USP that I owned, the mag release was considerably easier to use than on the P2000 I have now. They are not the same system. At a minimum the P2000 mag bodies are metal, and that (and maybe some other factors) gives the mag release a very different feel from the USP. It feels overly stiff to me.

In my view, dropping the mag with the strong-hand thumb is very much preferable. The 1911's and SIG have it right. But then again, I have a heel-release HK that I also love... so some variety is good - at least in terms of going to the range. In a gun fight... well who knows... few, if any, of us ever have been, or ever will be, in a gunfight (CF guys in Afghanistan excepted).

Overall, I think the P2000 is an excellent gun. I was shooting mine a little bit yesterday, in between practicing with my SIG. I really want to get those exptended floorplates though. I think I could improve my consistency with the P2000 if I had a bit better (and more consistent) grip on it. A couple of times when shooting the P2000 my strong-hand pinky has slipped off and gone under the bottom of the mag... and that is not good.

I would assume that CSC will get both kinds of the floorplates for the P2000's, so you guys (and gals) will end up with a very nice pistol. If the DAO gun is anything like the DA pull on the SA/DA gun it shouldn't be too hard to get used to. I don't have much problem shooting my P2000 in DA.

In my job (I am a lawyer) I go to Matsqui, Mountain and Kent once in awhile - sometimes other federal facilities - if I see some P2000's in the next few years I'll let you know.
 
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boomer271 said:
Some of the options they could have selected included the S&W [apparently the model 5946] that the RCMP uses, and the military SIGs. Sorry, I can't tell you prozacly why the powers-that-be-in-their-infinite-wisdom chose the HK, they would not let that info leak down to my pay grade, but any info you have that will make my job as an officer and instructor will be appreciated.
Click to expand...

There's also the Beretta Px4's being procured for the CBSA.

Just checking, but now we've got four federal agencies (the military, CBSA, CSC, and the RCMP) using handguns from four different manufacturers (Sig, Beretta, HK, S&W) now right? (not counting the old BHPs still in use by the Army)
 
ghostie said:
My girlfriend likes to shoot those Birchwood Casey "Dirtybird" splatter targets, especially the ones with nine 3 inch circles. She was shooting some of these awhile back at around 10 yards and I tried shooting one with my 229. That is the upper target in the picture below. It is good shooting (about average for that gun). It's about 2 inches across.

Then I decided to shoot one with the P2000 (the lower target below). After 5 shots I had a ragged hole right on the bullseye going! I quit after 5 shots, mainly becuase I wanted to see what that group measured out to! It measures out to about 3/4 inch. So, I just post that to show... the P2000 has great potential for accuracy if people get used to it. I, myself, do not feel completely comfortable with it yet, but it is a good solid platform for sure.
SIGvHK.jpg


On the issue of the mag release... it is not my favorite feature on the gun. I think Walther has the better ambidextrous mag release system going. Theirs is more of a paddle that forms parts of the trigger guard on either side - and is easier to manipulate - and can be manipulated with the thumb. The HK "chicklet" system is o.k., but I do not view it as industry leading or anything. Also, on the USP that I owned, the mag release was considerably easier to use than on the P2000 I have now. They are not the same system. At a minimum the P2000 mag bodies are metal, and that (and maybe some other factors) gives the mag release a very different feel from the USP. It feels overly stiff to me.

In my view, dropping the mag with the strong-hand thumb is very much preferable. The 1911's and SIG have it right. But then again, I have a heel-release HK that I also love... so some variety is good - at least in terms of going to the range. In a gun fight... well who knows... few, if any, of us ever have been, or ever will be, in a gunfight (CF guys in Afghanistan excepted).

Overall, I think the P2000 is an excellent gun. I was shooting mine a little bit yesterday, in between practicing with my SIG. I really want to get those exptended floorplates though. I think I could improve my consistency with the P2000 if I had a bit better (and more consistent) grip on it. A couple of times when shooting the P2000 my strong-hand pinky has slipped off and gone under the bottom of the mag... and that is not good.

I would assume that CSC will get both kinds of the floorplates for the P2000's, so you guys (and gals) will end up with a very nice pistol. If the DAO gun is anything like the DA pull on the SA/DA gun it shouldn't be too hard to get used to. I don't have much problem shooting my P2000 in DA.

In my job (I am a lawyer) I go to Matsqui, Mountain and Kent once in awhile - sometimes other federal facilities - if I see some P2000's in the next few years I'll let you know.
Click to expand...

Apparently,...the new P30-L which is "due out"this september is supposed have a longer paddle mag release,..similiar to the Walther. Less "chicklet like";)
 
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