New to IPSC, need help!!!

I'd hold off on buying the CR Speed (or any other Race Gear, for that matter) until you've had a chance to play the game for a bit and find out what might work best for you.

A regular belt, cheap cheap holster and even just 1 cheap cheap mag pouch will be enough to take your Black Badge Course, and once you've had a chance to look over other people's gear (students and instructors) you'll have a better feel for what you want.

Don't worry about being "a good shot" before you take your course. In fact, I've seen too many people who developed bad bad habits before taking the course, and these pose an obstacle to learning. The focus is on safety, and IPSC has some of the best safety rules for handgun shooting I've seen. Just go in with an open mind, accepting that you need to learn EVERYTHING and you'll be much better off than the person that THINKS they know how to handle their firearm.

Don't cheap out on the gun. Get a decent quality Glock or CZ style gun. What is important is that it functions properly without jamming. I've seen lots of people pick up some used piece of junk and have nothing but problems with it. In the end, it causes more problems than the savigns would justify.

Don't expect to go out and dazzle people with your speed and/or accuracy. There are many people that are going to be far far better shooters than you are; they've put lots of man hours into practice, competition and mental discipline. You've got a long way to go until you're in their league. Shoot safe, learn your basic skills and compete aginst yourself.

Set some goals: look for other people's names on the scores list that are near you, and try to compete against them at future matches. Don't worry about your actual percent - that will change depending on who shows up to the match.
 
hungrybeagle said:
I'd hold off on buying the CR Speed (or any other Race Gear, for that matter) until you've had a chance to play the game for a bit and find out what might work best for you.

A regular belt, cheap cheap holster and even just 1 cheap cheap mag pouch will be enough to take your Black Badge Course, and once you've had a chance to look over other people's gear (students and instructors) you'll have a better feel for what you want.

Don't worry about being "a good shot" before you take your course. In fact, I've seen too many people who developed bad bad habits before taking the course, and these pose an obstacle to learning. The focus is on safety, and IPSC has some of the best safety rules for handgun shooting I've seen. Just go in with an open mind, accepting that you need to learn EVERYTHING and you'll be much better off than the person that THINKS they know how to handle their firearm.

Don't cheap out on the gun. Get a decent quality Glock or CZ style gun. What is important is that it functions properly without jamming. I've seen lots of people pick up some used piece of junk and have nothing but problems with it. In the end, it causes more problems than the savigns would justify.

Don't expect to go out and dazzle people with your speed and/or accuracy. There are many people that are going to be far far better shooters than you are; they've put lots of man hours into practice, competition and mental discipline. You've got a long way to go until you're in their league. Shoot safe, learn your basic skills and compete aginst yourself.

Set some goals: look for other people's names on the scores list that are near you, and try to compete against them at future matches. Don't worry about your actual percent - that will change depending on who shows up to the match.
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This is very good advice - you don't have to get top line gear like a Gghost or CR Speed right off the hop.
That being said , I DID, but then I like a certain type of gun that is not at all popular as far as most are concerned!:D
I new what I wanted and needed right away, but could have gone with a cheaper holster .
You don't have light up the course to pass your black badge, I did it with no trouble shooting a 625-8 in 45 ACP.
Cat
 
catnthehatt said:
I did it with no trouble shooting a 625-8 in 45 ACP.
Cat
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How about that I had to go right to the bottom to find someone with good advice . Why not start off with a "real" I mean a "wheel" gun and get a revolver . The S&W 625 in .45ACP will answer all your needs ,when you pull the trigger it goes bang,no atoppages,no stovepipes,no need to rack and bang . It just works . You will eventually evolve and go to a revolver so why no save the trouble and get it now . Armco had some 610's in .40 S&W and 625 in .45 . Pick one have fun and never look back.

Shorty
 
shortround said:
How about that I had to go right to the bottom to find someone with good advice . Why not start off with a "real" I mean a "wheel" gun and get a revolver . The S&W 625 in .45ACP will answer all your needs ,when you pull the trigger it goes bang,no atoppages,no stovepipes,no need to rack and bang . It just works . You will eventually evolve and go to a revolver so why no save the trouble and get it now . Armco had some 610's in .40 S&W and 625 in .45 . Pick one have fun and never look back.

Shorty
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Well, there ARE some disadvantages to shooting a revolver!:redface:
I'll list a few here:
One, you can get yourself a semi auto quite a bit cheaper for a starter pistol, where you are going to spend about a grand for a 625 new.

Two, if you get into some longer changes you will have to WANT to practice a lot if your cylinder changes are going to get anywhere near fast.

Three, and this is the BIGGEST detractor, unless you WANT to shoot a revolver, you are better served to buy a semi auto because when you get into matches, there will likely not be enough wheel gunners to get up a devision, so you will be shooting with the open class guns.:eek:
I'm okay with that , but it is discouraging for many to have to shoot 6 or 8 shots and open sights against stuff that holds eleven and has a red dot on it!
Three , you will have to learn how to get your cases on and off the moon clips.
There are tools you can buy for this, but i made my own from a set of wire crimpers and a few minutes with a grinding disc on the dremel tool.
So there you have the long and short of it.
Whatever you buy, make sure it is what you are comfortable with.
Me? I'll stick to my spinner, they are just too much fun !:dancingbanana:
Cat
 
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While Sean missed the chance to pimp another of his products, I'll do it for him.

The Grand Power K100 or the soon to be released STI GP6 is another excellent choice for a production gun.
 
I shoot a Tan Limited Custom.

Both of my kids shoot Glock 17s as I thought that it was the best choice at the time.

Now however I would likely opt for the SP01 for them if I were to do it again. Add some aluminum grips like I saw Filthy using at the Nationals and you have some great gun at a reasonable (Glockish) price.
 
Hi,

Ok, so now that you're seen the level of lack of concensus on something as simple as your question (hehe), let me give you a simple answer...

you need a gun which will fit your hand. Which will feel "right" in your hand. Which will be comfortable in your hand, holding, shooting, reaching the trigger, controlling in recoil, all in your hand.

Do you see a pattern here? "IN YOUR HAND."

Yes, you do need a gun which is reliable and accurate, of course, but most guns are or can be made so with min effort.

What will fit in your hand only you can tell, and only from holding the gun, at least, and ideally actually shooting it. No one, NO ONE can tell you, over the internet, what will work for you. They can offer technical comments, on which gun might work better with which ammo, for example, but not what you're asking...

I would not buy a gun which I had never handled, and ideally shot, AND compared to other guns I shot and handled...

There must be people at whatever club you're based on, ask them if you could handle/shoot they guns, to give you some idea of what everything is like...

My personal area of ipsc deals with production division guns, which are the ordinary duty-syle, mostly 9mm pistols. In those, I'd suggest you see if you can try a Glock 17 (yes, it works for SOME people, it might be perfect for you), a CZ-75 SP01, a baby eagle, M&P 9, Sig P226, etc... Get an idea of what feel right - it's a very subjective feeling, and not one can tell you what will work for you like that. Unless you have money to throw away, don't buy something blindly...
 
Quigley said:
...I'll chime in...

If I had my choice between a Glock that works...or some top shelf choice that doesn't...Glock it is ;)

Well, I just have to say something. Anything. What I've seen over the years is the following: It seems to me that new shooters have a hard time mastering double action or Glock "safe action" triggers. I've seen this at Black badge courses years ago, and I still see it all the time today. Unless the new to IPSC shooter has a lot of experience with his/her pistol, in my experience they do much better initially and have a shorter learning curve with a single action type trigger. (Tanfo/1911/CZ) This is because they haven't mastered trigger control yet, and mastering a double action or worse, a Glock trigger, is no small feat. It takes a long time. I own all types, and my own experience reflects this. Once mastered, there is no issue anymore, but this won't happen at the BB course or anytime soon thereafter. So, I would suggest a single action type trigger to start, provided you can reach the trigger with your finger properly. Different types of pistols will give you different trigger reach depending on the size of your fingers and hands. And as for Glocks being "reliable", I have seen them jam and sputter just like any other pistol.
There is no pistol nirvana. They are all machines built by imperfect beings, so it's up to the owner or somebody else to make them run reliably. This is much more important than accuracy in our game. So, is a Glock the best answer to start in IPSC? In my experience, no. Hell no. It can be done, but there are far better choices to make your first IPSC experience more enjoyable and improve your chances of doing better. Who knows? You might even stick around for a while!!
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Mooch a gun from your instructor to do your black badge and don't buy a single freakin thing until after your done (except for ammo).

Try every gun you can get your hands on and see what fits you and what you love. Everyone has an opinion on what they like and don't like, but it's their preference, not yours.

I myself prefer the single action trigger of a 1911. I've found the first shot on a DA pistol a real challenge to master and it made shooting frustrating and not enjoyable. A trigger job and hi viz sights also really helped improved my accuracy when shooting.

When you do buy a pistol or revolver, consider buying a used pistol from a fellow competitor that you trust. Many shooters start out with quality guns, have them modified and tuned to a level that makes competitive shooting more fun and after all that hard work and pain, they upgrade to a fancy tricked out pistol and sell their reasonable entry level pistols.

Don't buy a rare caliber if you don't reload. Stick to the popular calibers 9mm, 40 or 45 to save yourself some grief early on. Then drop your life savings next year on a $5000 tricked out STI in 38super if that's what you love.
 
I've been told I'm a 1911 Snob
I started with one,and like the way they feel in my hand(theres that in your hand part again)
My wife took her BB with a M&P And is now using a Para

When I started my BB instructor told me to get what you Like first
You can get what you need later
Sounded funny at the time but there is some truth there
Your wants (and needs)will change

My BB gun would jam every 2 minuts,But only at the BB course or a match
I did get good at clearing jams
I did get the gun working great by the time I got another

The M&P has different grip pieces to help it fit your hand
Any I,ve seen are accurate, not badly priced and seem reliable
The CZ Shadow seems to be the currant star in production
A lot have used an Xd with good succsess
I too don't prefer a Glock because of grip angle and trigger
 
jasonburnsdundee said:
A glock, while decent, is not the cat's ass for ipsc but I think it is the least expensive platform to start playing the game. Buying the best once, is good advice but it is rarely followed. People who are passionate about this sport tend to buy the best and keep right on buying the best. Technology and thier skill level improve and thier gear improves right along with it.

What is best is pretty subjective.

For the glock I like where the safety is better than any other design. I like that they usually work quite well and are inexpensive. I like that they are double stacked. I find the trigger pretty awful and they point like a brick.

For the 1911 I like the way they point and can have a nice trigger. Things I do not like are the single stack requires more skill to do a quick reload (skill that I lack). Because they have more accessories than barbie and dressing them up can be as addictive as crack a 1911 can end up costing a ton to run. I do not like that a poor grip could result in engaging the safety and stopping the pistol.

I do not know enough about other designs to offer an informed opinion.
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I am brand spankin new to IPSC and this confuses me. We are taking our black badge course with two Glocks; a G34 and a G35 as well as a Para P1640. The 9mm Glock is for my 15 year old son (growing bones) and I am going to try going with the Para 40S&W although I am used to shooting .45ACP really and we have a few Kimbers that would fit the bill I am sure. I am told the Para is very popular, as is the Glock. The former is 1911 style with a thumb safety. It is DOUBLE stack although I'm not sure that this makes a huge difference as we also have several single stack guns and mag changes don't seem all that different. I like the feel of the Para. Had it out for the first time this past weekend and shot well with it.

Now... in terms of the Glocks. Where exactly is the safety on a Glock? Or is that the point? There is no safety on a Glock. None. Zip. Zilch. Pull the trigger with one in the tube and it will go bang every time. The only safety as far as I am concerned is the one between your ears and for me that just is not enough. I need a thumb safety. Gives me a warm fuzzy.

These are what we have decided to begin with... and will use for a while. When we get the hang of it we will start getting fancy; watch out!
 
the main safety on the Glock is the little thing in the trigger, if it's not depressed the trigger can't (most times) be pulled.

as for a first gun and gear, I echo Omen on this. Pick a gun that fits you and feels good. your best option, as mentioned, is to find some guns to borrow and try out. If you are on the west coast I'll lend you mine and my spare gear. It's pretty simple past that.
Proper trigger control is not that hard to learn, to put in to use, well that's a different story. I've been teaching people to shoot for a long time now and for some it's easy, for others it's hard. I've yet to notice any difference in my students ability based on the type of trigger. I prefer to teach people to shoot using a DA/SA or DAO honestly, because if you once you master that, the transition to just a SA trigger is easy. But learning on an SA, and then going to a DA trigger is often something that can cause a person trouble, if they've been shooting the SA for a long time. Things like clutching, healing, yanking, anticipation and all that happen with new shooters regardless of the gun or trigger they are using.
 
Well here is another take on all of this. What are you shooting IPSC for? Do you see yourself a possible Team Canada or Provincial/Club Champion or do you enjoy just shooting and see yourself as a C shooter. If it is the latter then look at the Glock/M&P/CZ/Tanfoglio line of pistols at something less than $1K and drop $100. on a Blade Tec holster/mag combo and a Wilderness belt in 9MM and go out and enjoy yourself.

I am going to go out on the limb here and say most of the guys I see shooting at club matches have guns they will rarely ever outshoot and there scores would not suffer much using a $600 Glock/M&P vs a high end Tanfoglio/1911 pattern gun.

I enjoy IPSC for the fun of shooting with the guys and the joy of rediscovering that the horse is already gone so there isn't much benefit in shuting the gate. That is me, you decide what you want out of the sport and what you will contribute to it and enjoy and have fun.

Take Care

Bob
 
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