Question of value for a Remington 45ACP

[jimmyjazz]

A buddy has a decent (75%) condition Remington Rand 45ACP all original that he is going to sell, I am interested but dont want to screw him.
He wont give me a price says "make me an offer"

What would be a decent offer?

Cheers

 

[Hitzy]

Mismatched, $500. All matching, $900

 

[NAA]

A buddy has a decent (75%) condition Remington Rand 45ACP all original that he is going to sell, I am interested but dont want to screw him.
He wont give me a price says "make me an offer"

What would be a decent offer?

Cheers

Condition is everything in these oldies. Detailed pics would tell a different story. One's 75% condition is different to anothers....

Plus someone with a trained eye in these matters can tell you if the slide actually matches the frame, if the other small parts are correct, and if the finish is actually correct or a long ago 'refinish'. Then there is various proof marks, inspector's initials etc.

Here's a good site to educate youself on the USGI 1911A1's

http://www.coolgunsite.com/

If I was looking at an 'original' Reminton-Rand mfg USGI 1911A1 in real 75% condition, I would want to know what actual year it was made [by the serial number] to (1) confirm that it is original and not a mismatch slide/frame and (2) see if the slide script is correct [Remington Rand had three different types of slide scripts depending on where in production it was assembled].

Then does it have the correct grips? [Two different styles depending on production date]

Correct barrel? [Should be proof stamped "HS" for High Standard]. Might be an "F" marked Flannery barrel if it was replaced in service or installed later in the war.

The frame should be stamped "FJA" for Frank Atwood, the military inspector of Remington Rands. There are also different fonts and types of this "FJA" stamp [located on the left side of the frame above the mag release button] depending on the time of production.

Does the frame "P" proof [located under the mag release button on the left side of the frame] match the "P" proof on the top of the slide [should be located just forward of the rear site]. Is the font the same for both?

Does the frame have a "SA" [Springfield Arsenal] or "AA" [Augusta Arsenal ] etc, arsenal rework stamp? Usually located on the right side of the frame forward of the trigger guard bow. Could explain why some of the other parts aren't matching or exactly correct if the pistol was 'reworked' at a military arsenal at some point.

Then you move onto the small parts.... slide stop, safety, hammer, mainspring housing.... are these checkered parts or are they serrated? Different as the pistols progessed thru productions.

Magazine... is it a USGI contract magazine correct for a Remington-Rand?

And so it goes.....

Anyway, these days I'd expect to pay $750 - $1,000 for an original, correct Remington-Rand in decent condition that I had gone over and satisfied myself that it was original and correct....

Here's a 1944 mfg Remington Rand:

 

[jimmyjazz]

Here is some pix:

Thanks for the info it has been very informative.

Cheers

 

[NAA]

Very interesting pics... I can pretty much tell you from the pics that it's not original finish, the frame anyway.... the US property marks have been removed from both sides of the frame. To do that the frame would have to have been refinished after the proof marks, script etc was removed.

If it was legit you would be seeing this in the pics [above your serial number]

And the "FJA" inspector stamp:

Proof mark [right side]:

 

[NAA]

A buddy has a decent (75%) condition Remington Rand 45ACP all original that he is going to sell, I am interested but dont want to screw him.
He wont give me a price says "make me an offer"

What would be a decent offer?

Cheers

$650 tops for a GI pistol with the US property marks removed and refinished.

 

[Paulinski]

As usual good info NAA.

Slide stop might not be correct as well. I done see frame inspection mark too. This might not be RR frame at all but we need a serial number to determine that.

 

[NAA]

As usual good info NAA.

Slide stop might not be correct as well. I done see frame inspection mark tool. This might not be RR frame at all but we need a serial number to determine that.

+1

Also, the serial number should be preceeded with either:

No or NO.

[See the pics I posted above]

If your serial number is just a number without either of the prefix above then I'd suspect that this frame has been 'sanitized'..... i.e. original markings, including serial number, removed and a new serial number stamped. If it has been given a "new" serial number then it will be nearly impossible to determine the correct year of mfg or even if it is a legit USGI frame. One possibility would be to disassemble it and look on the top of the frame, you might see some letters or numbers stamped there that may indicate maker.

Something else I'm not seeing in the above pics.... usually USGI frame will have small numbers or letters stamped on the trigger guard bows on either side. These were 'assemblers' markings. Never seen one without them, either.

I'm leaning towards a 'sanitized' frame on this one, given the lack of script & proof markings..... or a 'lunchbox' gun.... frame & parts that were removed from the factory at the time of production before the script and proofs were applied and full pistol assembled later.

 

[jimmyjazz]

Some great info here thanks so much.

From what I can tell the frame is a Colt 1943 manufacture.
SN - 9570XX

I guess that will affect the value?

Cheers

 

[NAA]

Some great info here thanks so much.

From what I can tell the frame is a Colt 1943 manufacture.
SN - 9570XX

I guess that will affect the value?

Cheers

Not necessarily a Colt frame. There was a duplication in serial numbers between Colt and Remington Rand in 1942 - 1943. The serial number range for this duplication is: 921,700-1,041,404.

If your frame is a Colt you should see a "WB" or "GHD" inspectors proof where a Remington Rand should have the "FJA".

And on a Colt you should see a tiny "view proof" on the tigger guard bow.

If indeed it turns out to be a mismatch then yes, it is not "original" and therefore not as valuable from a collector standpoint. But your example already does not appear original as some of the correct script, proofs & markings appear to be missing.

It is an interesting piece nevertheless. Very clean. And somewhat representative of an era USGI pistol. I still sooner have it than a brand new Springfield or Auto-Ordnance GI model repro pistol.