I took the wife and kids to fort Walsh this summer and was surprised to learn the N.W.M.P were issued Adam's revolvers . I had always assumed they would have had Webley's of some sort. Do any of you Gun Nuts own an Adam's ? I would love to see pictures if you do.
45 Adam's revolver
- Thread starter gregs5190
- Start date
If the serial # is in the book Arms & Accoutrements of the Mounted Police they usually go between $2500. & $3500.00 depending on condition.
to answer Greg the barrel hinges down and the cylinder slides forward leaving shells back by recoil sheild
Not many canadian servicemen ever carried webley products. Toronto police force with thier 442s and the RCN with mkI*** are two that I have owned/seen. Love to hear of more webleys with Canadian heritage if anyone can enlighten. Both private purchase and issue arms.
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I was there this summer as well. The tour guide was fairly knowledgable about the fort but there was one old timer there who was asking about the sidearms...I had to educate the group about the enfield.
...To comment on the 44 webley cases...Ive had a couple of revolvers in 44 webley (or maybe they were 44 RIC). none of them chambered a shortened 44 mag case. It was just too large in dia. I found that a shortened 41 mag case worked. Wasnt loose at all like you would expect. Just needed to find an original heeled 44 webley mold for it.
Greg, PM me and i'll give you the info on my experience with it...
gregs5190, best thing is to slug your bore, and measure the throat of your chamber. Then when you have those measurements in hand source bullets you think will work.
The challange probabley will be to get a large enough diameter bullet to fit the bore while still being able to chamber the loaded round. i.e need a heeled bullet. If such is the case try and get heeled bullets. Using shortened brass that is too thick at the case mouth will exacberate the need for heeled bullet. therefore start with the shortest brass possible. i.e maybe not 44 mag if 44 sp or 44 rus will work.
You might find that a bore sized bullet seated backwards will work. Use caution here and load single rounds until you have a high level of confidence in your crimp etc
These guys will sell you components and list:
44 Bull Dog
44 Colt
44 Colt Conversion
44 Smith & Wesson American
44 Smith & Wesson Russian
44 Webley
442 RIC
442 Kurz
10.5X17Rmm
44 Webley "Bull Dog"
w ww.starsandstripesammo.com
Give them a call and see what they have. They will ship and brass and bullets but obviously no loaded ammo.
The challange probabley will be to get a large enough diameter bullet to fit the bore while still being able to chamber the loaded round. i.e need a heeled bullet. If such is the case try and get heeled bullets. Using shortened brass that is too thick at the case mouth will exacberate the need for heeled bullet. therefore start with the shortest brass possible. i.e maybe not 44 mag if 44 sp or 44 rus will work.
You might find that a bore sized bullet seated backwards will work. Use caution here and load single rounds until you have a high level of confidence in your crimp etc
These guys will sell you components and list:
44 Bull Dog
44 Colt
44 Colt Conversion
44 Smith & Wesson American
44 Smith & Wesson Russian
44 Webley
442 RIC
442 Kurz
10.5X17Rmm
44 Webley "Bull Dog"
w ww.starsandstripesammo.com
Give them a call and see what they have. They will ship and brass and bullets but obviously no loaded ammo.
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I'm a little late finding this thread, but here goes .....
First, here is my .450 Adams "Model of 1872" - (click thumbnail images to enlarge ....)
This example is not NWMP-issue ... but then I got it for a lot less than I'd have had to pay for Mounted Police revolver.
The "Mark III" (M'1872) Adams was the model the NWMP were expecting to receive right from the outset - the order to the War Department, placed in late 1873 or early 1874, having specified the "latest model" of British service revolver. The revolvers still hadn't arrived when the NWMP were otherwise ready to start off from Dufferin, Manitoba, on the "Great March West" in 1874, and their departure was delayed until the shipment arrived. When the crate was opened, they were astounded to discover that what had been sent were "First Model" Adams cartridge revolvers - which were in fact conversions from percussion ignition to cartridge revolvers (and thus only 5-shot rather than 6-shot) and also that the "trade contractor" to which the War Department had apparently "farmed out" the order had simply placed all the revolvers together in the crate - without separation or proper packing - with the result that many of the pieces were damaged. A further delay ensued, while the NWMP armourers repaired what they could (cannibalizing parts from some of them) and the Force then set off on its trek without a full complement of handguns.
A complaint through official channels resulted in this first shipment of revolvers being replaced with Mark III Adams revolvers - in 1875, IIRC.
The NWMP adopted the .476 Enfield revolver in 1882, when it was already coming under criticism as awkward and somewhat unreliable in its role as the then-current British service revolver (resulting in its replacement by the Mark I Webley revolver in 1887) .... and it was retained as the primary Mounted Police handgun until 1905. Here is my example, which is recorded as being NWMP-issue:
By the way, the common assumption that Canadian police and military handguns have been British models is erroneous - The RCMP have used American models since adopting the Colt New Service revolver in 1905, and Canadian military forces have never adopted what could be considered a primary-issue handgun that was British! For more information, check out this online article I was privileged to author - illustrating it mostly with handguns and holsters from my own collection ....
http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/weapons/pistols.htm
(I see that some of the image links in the article appear to be broken, and I'll fire off a message to the webmaster of that site about it.)
First, here is my .450 Adams "Model of 1872" - (click thumbnail images to enlarge ....)
This example is not NWMP-issue ... but then I got it for a lot less than I'd have had to pay for Mounted Police revolver.
The "Mark III" (M'1872) Adams was the model the NWMP were expecting to receive right from the outset - the order to the War Department, placed in late 1873 or early 1874, having specified the "latest model" of British service revolver. The revolvers still hadn't arrived when the NWMP were otherwise ready to start off from Dufferin, Manitoba, on the "Great March West" in 1874, and their departure was delayed until the shipment arrived. When the crate was opened, they were astounded to discover that what had been sent were "First Model" Adams cartridge revolvers - which were in fact conversions from percussion ignition to cartridge revolvers (and thus only 5-shot rather than 6-shot) and also that the "trade contractor" to which the War Department had apparently "farmed out" the order had simply placed all the revolvers together in the crate - without separation or proper packing - with the result that many of the pieces were damaged. A further delay ensued, while the NWMP armourers repaired what they could (cannibalizing parts from some of them) and the Force then set off on its trek without a full complement of handguns.
A complaint through official channels resulted in this first shipment of revolvers being replaced with Mark III Adams revolvers - in 1875, IIRC.
The NWMP adopted the .476 Enfield revolver in 1882, when it was already coming under criticism as awkward and somewhat unreliable in its role as the then-current British service revolver (resulting in its replacement by the Mark I Webley revolver in 1887) .... and it was retained as the primary Mounted Police handgun until 1905. Here is my example, which is recorded as being NWMP-issue:
By the way, the common assumption that Canadian police and military handguns have been British models is erroneous - The RCMP have used American models since adopting the Colt New Service revolver in 1905, and Canadian military forces have never adopted what could be considered a primary-issue handgun that was British! For more information, check out this online article I was privileged to author - illustrating it mostly with handguns and holsters from my own collection ....
http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/weapons/pistols.htm
(I see that some of the image links in the article appear to be broken, and I'll fire off a message to the webmaster of that site about it.)
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Thanks Grant always great posts.
I and another BP regular on here have 4 inch barrelled (mkiv patern) 1914 dated webley mkI*** s with 1905issue dates and RCN stamps. I'll dig it out of it's oil bath in the next day or two and try and post pics. Any insight on these? I know of at least 2 others identically marked, one actually in town here (small world) for a total of a least 4 still in existence. all recently showed up in the states and were recently imported.
I and another BP regular on here have 4 inch barrelled (mkiv patern) 1914 dated webley mkI*** s with 1905issue dates and RCN stamps. I'll dig it out of it's oil bath in the next day or two and try and post pics. Any insight on these? I know of at least 2 others identically marked, one actually in town here (small world) for a total of a least 4 still in existence. all recently showed up in the states and were recently imported.
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David:
Yes, I guess I need to clarify - I was referring to "military" .... i.e. "army" ... issue handguns - and note that I specified "primary issue".
I tend not to even think of those "Naval" chaps actually - they have much bigger guns to play with, and their small arms tend to be kept tucked away in arms lockers as a result .......
Nor was I including the Air Force in my general observation, for that matter - I think the article I linked to does mention the very small number of .380 Enfield revolvers acquired by the tiny RCAF during the 1930's and others acquired later .... but the total number of Enfield revolvers in Canadian service was utterly dwarfed by tens of thousands of .38 S&W revolvers (over 118,000 acquired for Canadian WWII service) ... so I certainly categorize the British model as "secondary issue".
As for the Navy Webleys - the RCN actually had quite a few .455 Webley revolvers - some of them quite "elderly" like your MkI. It is my understanding that this is because most of the warships first acquired by the RCN were older British vessels, transferred to Canada complete with all their onboard equipment, including the contents of the small arms lockers. Thus, most such .455 Webley revolvers were "inherited" by the Canadian Navy, so to speak, as opposed to having been intentionally adopted as an official model by Canada ....
Yes, I guess I need to clarify - I was referring to "military" .... i.e. "army" ... issue handguns - and note that I specified "primary issue".
I tend not to even think of those "Naval" chaps actually - they have much bigger guns to play with, and their small arms tend to be kept tucked away in arms lockers as a result .......
Nor was I including the Air Force in my general observation, for that matter - I think the article I linked to does mention the very small number of .380 Enfield revolvers acquired by the tiny RCAF during the 1930's and others acquired later .... but the total number of Enfield revolvers in Canadian service was utterly dwarfed by tens of thousands of .38 S&W revolvers (over 118,000 acquired for Canadian WWII service) ... so I certainly categorize the British model as "secondary issue".As for the Navy Webleys - the RCN actually had quite a few .455 Webley revolvers - some of them quite "elderly" like your MkI. It is my understanding that this is because most of the warships first acquired by the RCN were older British vessels, transferred to Canada complete with all their onboard equipment, including the contents of the small arms lockers. Thus, most such .455 Webley revolvers were "inherited" by the Canadian Navy, so to speak, as opposed to having been intentionally adopted as an official model by Canada ....
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Guess I should add that my second .455 Webley revolver is a Mark VI which was the personal (i.e. private purchase) sidearm of a young Canadian Army Lieutenant who served overseas in the C.E.F. Interestingly, when I bought it (at a gun show) I was so concerned with checking condition and that all serial numbers were matching, that I didn't even notice the name engraved on the backstrap - only saw that after I had bought the revolver ......
I subsequently aquired the entire C.E.F. Service Record of the original owner, Lieutenant Samuel William Seago. As documented on the "Casualty Form" attached to this image, he suffered "Shell Concussion" at the front on 8 August 1918 - other documents detail that he was knocked unconcious and deafened. He was evacuated to a field hospital and subsequently to England; even though later declared fit for active duty, he never made it back to the front, instead being shipped home to Canada. The date of his injury is significant - it was the opening day of the Amiens Offensive, in which the Canadian Corps spearheaded the attack which finally broke the German line and spelled the end of the trench warfare deadlock of the previous four years. The Canadian Corps advanced farther than any Allied force had done in one day since the trench lines became established. The unit Lt. Seago was serving with (the 116th Battalion) was among the first "over the top" in that battle.
(Click to enlarge ...)
eltigra306
Member
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Just a guestion, with the US being so close and with there( I don't know if more advanced is the right way to put it/ superior designs) revolvers such as the saa colts/ remingtons/ smith and wesson Schofield # 3's. Why did the Canadian gov't choose to wait for odd and ?able revolvers from Britian? Aside from being a British coloney it makes no sense to me that they didn't go with the more popular designs of the US. Thats just my 2 cents and I am interested in the history behind that decision.
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