Rem 700 5R Milspec versus Sako 85 Varmint Laminated Stainless?

Milson Wilson

Milson Wilson

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Which of these two rifles would you pick for long range precision shooting in .308 calibre, and why?

It seems a lot of target shooters like Remington 700's but I haven't heard of anyone using the Sako rifles. I've handled and shot a Sako 75 at the range. The Sako action was smooth as butter.
 
I went the Sako way a few years ago. Mcmillan A5 stock and Gaillard barrel. Main problem was that there was NO accessories availlable to modify it (rail, trigger...).

That's why I now own a 700 5R. All the bells and whistles are availlable for it. Also there are many more gunsmiths who know how to work on a Rem 700 than on a Sako 75.

But nothing wrong with the Sako 75 as a hunting rifle.
Just my 2 cents.
 
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The Sako is more likely to give you good out of box accuracy, but honestly it is a crap shoot as to whether you will get accuracy that is significantly better than rifles that cost half that much. These are not true "long-range precision" rifles, they are expensive factory rifles.

For about the cost of one of these guns you could have an SPS Varmint with a Krieger or a Mike Rock barrel that I promise will shoot better than either of your factory rifle choices.
 
Obtunded said:
The Sako is more likely to give you good out of box accuracy, but honestly it is a crap shoot as to whether you will get accuracy that is significantly better than rifles that cost half that much. These are not true "long-range precision" rifles, they are expensive factory rifles.

For about the cost of one of these guns you could have an SPS Varmint with a Krieger or a Mike Rock barrel that I promise will shoot better than either of your factory rifle choices.
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AMEN!!!!
 
Obtunded said:
The Sako is more likely to give you good out of box accuracy, but honestly it is a crap shoot as to whether you will get accuracy that is significantly better than rifles that cost half that much. These are not true "long-range precision" rifles, they are expensive factory rifles.

For about the cost of one of these guns you could have an SPS Varmint with a Krieger or a Mike Rock barrel that I promise will shoot better than either of your factory rifle choices.
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For half the cost you're really only getting the action. Unless you plan on paying a bit more for the SPS stainless, then it will be a regular blued action. Then you have to upgrade the crap stock, purchase the barrel ( What's the availability and price like on a Mike Rock barrel?) and have a gunsmith put it on for you. You can do all this for 1K? Because that's what I paid for my second 5R. The price of a good scope.

My concern is the 10/22 syndrome. Suddenly costs get out of hand.

I know the guys who can get stuff wholesale can put together one of those rifles. The average guy like myself however will end up most likely paying a heck of a lot more.

Let's see the numbers, I'm not sure what this stuff would cost. Maybe I'm wrong.
 
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Epoxy7 said:
For half the cost you're really only getting the action. Unless you plan on paying a bit more for the SPS stainless, then it will be a regular blued action. Then you have to upgrade the crap stock, purchase the barrel ( What's the availability and price like on a Mike Rock barrel?) and have a gunsmith put it on for you. You can do all this for 1K? Because that's what I paid for my second 5R. The price of a good scope.

My concern is the 10/22 syndrome. Suddenly costs get out of hand.

I know the guys who can get stuff wholesale can put together one of those rifles. The average guy like myself however will end up most likely paying a heck of a lot more.

Let's see the numbers, I'm not sure what this stuff would cost. Maybe I'm wrong.
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SPS $539 (WSS)
308 caliber Custom Krieger Barrel, any twist, any contour in 4140 CM steel $420 (me)
Chambering, crowning threading $275 =$1034 (McPhee)

Sell the unused barrel and stock in the EE, ~$100+

Add B&C A2 stock inletted for R-700 $324.49

Total price $1258.49 +taxes
 
Obtunded said:
SPS $539 (WSS)
308 caliber Custom Krieger Barrel, any twist, any contour in 4140 CM steel $420 (me)
Chambering, crowning threading $275 =$1034 (McPhee)

Sell the unused barrel and stock in the EE, ~$100+

Add B&C A2 stock inletted for R-700 $324.49

Total price $1258.49 +taxes
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In order to compare apples with apples:

$625 (WSS) for the Stainless action SPS (This is the equivalent to the one on the 5R).
$420 for the Krieger Barrel
$275 for gunsmithing
$324 for B&C A2 stock inletted for R-700. (I personally like the HS better than B&C but I know that's just personal preference).

Total price $1644. plus tax.
Yes you may get some back for the barrel and stock but you still need to pay initially.

5R $1000 plus tax.
-Stainless 700 action
-synthetic H&S stock with palm swell and a nice flat forend (also has recurve for off hand shooting)
-5R rifled barrel. Satin stainless bull barrel.
-Speculation that the actions are trued which would also add to the cost of a build.

Rebarreling later on is still an option and it keeps you within the price of putting together an SPS.
 
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Epoxy7 said:
In order to compare apples with apples:

$625 (WSS) for the Stainless action SPS (This is the equivalent to the one on the 5R).
$420 for the Krieger Barrel
$275 for gunsmithing
$324 for B&C A2 stock inletted for R-700. (I personally like the HS better than B&C but I know that's just personal preference).

Total price $1644. plus tax.
Yes you may get some back for the barrel and stock but you still need to pay initially.

5R $1000 plus tax.
-Stainless 700 action
-synthetic H&S stock with palm swell and a nice flat forend (also has recurve for off hand shooting)
-5R rifled barrel. Satin stainless bull barrel.
-Speculation that the actions are trued which would also add to the cost of a build.

Rebarreling later on is still an option and it keeps you within the price of putting together an SPS.
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you must be sure happy with your R-5 Epoxy7 lol!!!

You are one of the lucky ones that got theres to shoot!

Because mine and about 10 other guys that played with them were not happy with the results.

Specialy that god awefull trigger they put in them.
 
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How about a Savage 10LE in a HS stock?

Great trigger, and det mag. HS stock that is very comfy. Barrels usually shoot sub MOA. Just bed and go play.

Easy enough to spin on a better pipe at a later time.

All for under $1000

Jerry
 
Hey if you like your 5R, enjoy! If you find value it it, that's good. Nobody likes anything they think they got ripped-off with. The important this is you are out shooting.

Trust me, those action are NOT trued, and the radius-rifled barrels they use in those guns are as schitty as any other they mass produce and I am a huge Remington fan. Borrow a bore scope and look at them, don't take my word for it, I'm just another internet armchair expert.

If you are a fan of radius rifling Alberta Tactical handles Rock barrels and they are the best of their kind. It would be an eye opener to see the Remington version side-by-side with one of Mike's under a bore scope.

My intent is not to get into a pyssing match, but to point out that if you are after precision, REAL precision accuracy, you ain't gonna get it with a factory Remington barrel. If you want a 5R identical clone, it will cost you more money, but not a lot more.
 
Obtunded said:
Hey if you like your 5R, enjoy! If you find value it it, that's good. Nobody likes anything they think they got ripped-off with. The important this is you are out shooting.

Trust me, those action are NOT trued, and the radius-rifled barrels they use in those guns are as schitty as any other they mass produce and I am a huge Remington fan. Borrow a bore scope and look at them, don't take my word for it, I'm just another internet armchair expert.

If you are a fan of radius rifling Alberta Tactical handles Rock barrels and they are the best of their kind. It would be an eye opener to see the Remington version side-by-side with one of Mike's under a bore scope.

My intent is not to get into a pyssing match, but to point out that if you are after precision, REAL precision accuracy, you ain't gonna get it with a factory Remington barrel. If you want a 5R identical clone, it will cost you more money, but not a lot more.
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I agree with everything you said. The Rem "Mil Spec" 5r barrel is still a mass produced hammer forged factory barrel, just with different rifling. I have a Rem 700 with a 22" Rock M24 Contour barrel. The action has been blueprinted, it is bedded and has aluminum pillars in an A-5 Stock. It outshoots me by a longshot and is the most accurate rifle I have shot, this includes over an AI AW, PGW Coyote, Tac Ops Tango 51 and other less known precision guns. I checked out the Rock barrel compared to a Rem LTR through a borescope, the difference between a match grade hand lapped single point cut rifled barrel and a mass produced factory barrel is like like night and day, there is no comparison.
 
Not trying to be a pain but a borescope tells you nothing about the accuracy potential of a barrel.

you can tell the surface texture which is a good indicator of fouling but barrel accuracy has to do with dimensional consistency. That you need an air guage for.

I have owned many rifles that shot very well (sub MOA consistently, a couple down to 1/2 min) that had bores so rough they were green from the copper fouling. Looking through a borescope would likely cause you nightmares so a good thing I don't own one.

I judge the accuracy by holes in paper.

I do use match barrels these are also baby butt smooth and look great under a mag glass. But that has more to do with the precision/quality workmanship of the maker then anything else.

Holding a bore to 0.001" over its length requires very fine finishing. That leads to glass smooth surfaces.

No factory pipe is ever going to shoot as well as a match pipe but does it matter to the shooter and its intended task?

Jerry
 
Jerry, I did not intend to indicate that the borescope tells you the accuracy potential of a barrel, I just stated the difference between a match grade and a mass produced factory barrel. I think the most important factor is the nut behind the bolt. You could have the most accurate rifle in front of you but if you don't do your part, you will never wring out the potential of the rifle.
 
Foolish me ...

Yikes ... a week or two ago I paid $699 for an SPS Varmint .223 (an impulse purchase) at a small shop in Lethbridge.

I live 100 miles west of there and don't get into town too often, but I've also bought stuff from WS in Lethbridge.

I do like to support small local retailers ... but I could have got/added $100 of extra goodies if I'd only driven about 10 km across-town to WS.

Boomer
 
Obtunded said:
Hey if you like your 5R, enjoy! If you find value it it, that's good. Nobody likes anything they think they got ripped-off with. The important this is you are out shooting.

Trust me, those action are NOT trued, and the radius-rifled barrels they use in those guns are as schitty as any other they mass produce and I am a huge Remington fan. Borrow a bore scope and look at them, don't take my word for it, I'm just another internet armchair expert.

If you are a fan of radius rifling Alberta Tactical handles Rock barrels and they are the best of their kind. It would be an eye opener to see the Remington version side-by-side with one of Mike's under a bore scope.

My intent is not to get into a pyssing match, but to point out that if you are after precision, REAL precision accuracy, you ain't gonna get it with a factory Remington barrel. If you want a 5R identical clone, it will cost you more money, but not a lot more.
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My argument is simply that I could get a 5R and a match barrel for the same price as your doctored up SPS.

As for the barrel. My first 5 round group with the thing at 100 yards was 5 rounds in .349 of an inch. That's after screwing the 4th shot sligtly to the left, because I couldn't believe the first 3 went in the exact same spot. That was with Federal gold 168 grain off the shelf target ammo. I'm not an advanced shooter and this was done with a shooting bag in front and a bean bag for the back stock.

I'm not expecting this thing to be a bench rifle. Sub .5 moa for this type of rifle is very acceptable. After I shoot out this barrel I'll get it rebarreled. Again the total cost won't be anymore than the math of building one from an SPS. So where's the harm? If your barrel doesn't work out to your expectations with the 5R then get a new one. Same cost as if you did the SPS build. Only you'll probably get more for the barrel when you go to sell it.

By the way I felt so "ripped" off that I bought a second one. Best $1000 I've ever spent.

I'm happy with mine and looking forward to what it can do with the 175 grain ammo. Plus I had the trigger lowered to 3 pounds since last shooting it.

It's not about a pissing contest. Every rifle will be different. I just don't think the rare case of a bad 5R deserves to dominate.

For instance you swear by your XR-100. Mine shot like crap. I've had it sleeved, the trigger replaced, and the stock pillar bedded by a good gunsmith. It still shoots mediocre. My 5R smokes this thing for accuracy. I may very well have to get the barrel changed. The fact that mine sucked doesn't mean all do. I've shot a buddies XR-100 in 22-250 and it was excellent for a stock rifle. Too bad mine sucked. So does this mean that anyone buying a XR-100 is getting ripped off? I don't think so.
 
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JasonYuke said:
you must be sure happy with your R-5 Epoxy7 lol!!!

You are one of the lucky ones that got theres to shoot!

Because mine and about 10 other guys that played with them were not happy with the results.

Specialy that god awefull trigger they put in them.
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Hey Jason,

It'll be interesting to try out my second one and see if I get the same results. Hmmm, I could replace the Zeiss Conquest from my DPMS LR-308 with a Falcon 4-14x and put the Zeiss on my second 5R. This way the rifles would be identical. If I get some time, and no wind I'll give it a try. Probably not until spring though. This would give me an idea if the first one was just a fluke or not.

The triggers in both of mine are very good. Clean and crisp. No travel or creep. The only issue is the weight is heavy. I've had both lowered to 3 pounds (They could probably go lower but I requested 3). They aren't timney's, Jewel or Shilen triggers but I've found they shoot well for me. I'm happy with them. The only crap Remington trigger I've had was with my XR-100.
 
I bought a 5r myself,but I haven't yet received it.My plan right from the start was to try the gun as is,and see how it shoots.If it lives up to my expectations,I will be very happy,if it doesn't,it will be sent out to have the action trued,lapped and bedded,and a Mike Rock barrel installed.For the price of the 5R,I at least have a barreled action,and a decent stock.A stainless 700 SPS plus the H-S stock are going to cost about $1000 anyways.As such,the most that I will be out if it doesn't shoot is about $200.
 
stubblejumper said:
I bought a 5r myself,but I haven't yet received it.My plan right from the start was to try the gun as is,and see how it shoots.If it lives up to my expectations,I will be very happy,if it doesn't,it will be sent out to have the action trued,lapped and bedded,and a Mike Rock barrel installed.For the price of the 5R,I at least have a barreled action,and a decent stock.A stainless 700 SPS plus the H-S stock are going to cost about $1000 anyways.As such,the most that I will be out if it doesn't shoot is about $200.
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That was pretty much my plan as well. It worked out for me.

Hey Stubblejumper, just don't put a Leupold EFR air rifle scope on it :p
 
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