LMT gas piston is reality!
- Thread starter koalorka
- Start date
The only pros I see are less wear/tear on the reciver and less cleaning. Would be nice but since my rifles are range guns and not combat it doesn't really make that big of a deal to me.
I forked over the cash for a Swiss Arms. Will also be getting an AR-15 to go with my AR-10.
Accuracy is more important to me for a range gun. Kind of funny how the "new" thing for the AR that costs big bucks is based on a system that's been used since 1944 (I believe the German STG44 that the AK was copied off used this system).
On second thought however:
I guess it would be of use though for the real shorties to prevent some of the problems. For them it might make a lot of sense to have the piston set up. Those types of rifles are more likely to be fired a lot in quick succession aka tactical style shooting. So I guess there is a market for them.
I forked over the cash for a Swiss Arms. Will also be getting an AR-15 to go with my AR-10.
Accuracy is more important to me for a range gun. Kind of funny how the "new" thing for the AR that costs big bucks is based on a system that's been used since 1944 (I believe the German STG44 that the AK was copied off used this system).
On second thought however:
I guess it would be of use though for the real shorties to prevent some of the problems. For them it might make a lot of sense to have the piston set up. Those types of rifles are more likely to be fired a lot in quick succession aka tactical style shooting. So I guess there is a market for them.
Scarecrow,
the AK was definately based off the STG44 (perhaps copied was too strong since it's mechanicall different). The same way the Germans copied the armour of the Russian T-34 for their Panther tank. The execution might have been different but the idea was directly taken from the other and created in response to the other.
"Despite circumstantial evidence, Mikhail Kalashnikov denies his assault rifle was based on the German StG44 assault rifle. The AK47 is best described as a hybrid of previous rifle technology innovations: the M1 Garand rifle's double locking lugs, unlocking raceway, and trigger mechanism,[6] and the safety mechanism of the John Browning designed Remington Model 8 rifle.[7] The main advantages of the Kalashnikov rifle is simple design and adaptation to mass production; it is a fusion of the best Browning design, the M1 Garand and the StG44.[8]"
"Mikhail Kalashnikov began imagining his assault rifle while in hospital after being wounded in the Battle of Bryansk.[4] A frequent topic of conversation among the patients was the lack of an automatic rifle to match those of the Germans"
Normally I hate Wikepedia, but.... this article was very good.
Scarecrow I made a generaly sweeping statement, which like all general statements can be picked apart piece by piece at the detail lever. However you can't tell me that the STG44 wasn't A)Inspired as a result of the STG44 which saw most of it's service on the Eastern front B) A lot of the design elements were taken from the STG44.
Now we get back to the current discussion.. well the AK uses a long bolt this "new improved one" clearly isn't even remotely the same because it uses a "short bolt" argument. Better mouse trap same idea. The execution is different, but it's not as if it's the first time we've seen this. If you were to steal an original idea in art or literature and change it a bit you would be hounded by the critics as copying someone elses work. These days possibly even lawsuites even if your execution was different.
The reality is there are only a few "original" firearms that were ahead of their time. Even they tend to have design elements from firearms that preceded them. You know how the old cliche goes "....is the sincerest form of flattery".
We can sit here and argue about every nit picky detail if you want. If you go back to the bigger picture it's pretty hard to denie that the AK idea, and elements of it's design were heavily influenced by the STG44.
the AK was definately based off the STG44 (perhaps copied was too strong since it's mechanicall different). The same way the Germans copied the armour of the Russian T-34 for their Panther tank. The execution might have been different but the idea was directly taken from the other and created in response to the other.
"Despite circumstantial evidence, Mikhail Kalashnikov denies his assault rifle was based on the German StG44 assault rifle. The AK47 is best described as a hybrid of previous rifle technology innovations: the M1 Garand rifle's double locking lugs, unlocking raceway, and trigger mechanism,[6] and the safety mechanism of the John Browning designed Remington Model 8 rifle.[7] The main advantages of the Kalashnikov rifle is simple design and adaptation to mass production; it is a fusion of the best Browning design, the M1 Garand and the StG44.[8]"
"Mikhail Kalashnikov began imagining his assault rifle while in hospital after being wounded in the Battle of Bryansk.[4] A frequent topic of conversation among the patients was the lack of an automatic rifle to match those of the Germans"
Normally I hate Wikepedia, but.... this article was very good.
Scarecrow I made a generaly sweeping statement, which like all general statements can be picked apart piece by piece at the detail lever. However you can't tell me that the STG44 wasn't A)Inspired as a result of the STG44 which saw most of it's service on the Eastern front B) A lot of the design elements were taken from the STG44.
Now we get back to the current discussion.. well the AK uses a long bolt this "new improved one" clearly isn't even remotely the same because it uses a "short bolt" argument. Better mouse trap same idea. The execution is different, but it's not as if it's the first time we've seen this. If you were to steal an original idea in art or literature and change it a bit you would be hounded by the critics as copying someone elses work. These days possibly even lawsuites even if your execution was different.
The reality is there are only a few "original" firearms that were ahead of their time. Even they tend to have design elements from firearms that preceded them. You know how the old cliche goes "....is the sincerest form of flattery".
We can sit here and argue about every nit picky detail if you want. If you go back to the bigger picture it's pretty hard to denie that the AK idea, and elements of it's design were heavily influenced by the STG44.
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I would say Mikhail was inspired by the assault rifle concept of lower recoil light automatic fire. The German and Russian designs have entirely different locking systems, manufacture and disassembly. I think it is significant that the AK-47 found in general use was milled and the STG stamped. The G3 is more inspired from the STG than the AK, particularly in its stamping and disassembly, albeit with yet another locking system.
I will agree that certain aspects of the STG probably did lead to the configuration of the AK: The rear sight location, the front sight type, the piston rod over the barrel layout, the 30 shot magazine with a Kurz round. But that is it.
I will agree that certain aspects of the STG probably did lead to the configuration of the AK: The rear sight location, the front sight type, the piston rod over the barrel layout, the 30 shot magazine with a Kurz round. But that is it.
No not really Deckard.
Scarecrow likes to "correct" people on any minute detail that might not be perfectly 100 percent correct. It's annoying as hell and the results are predictable. I suspect it's more the way the posts are written rather than a character flaw. At least I hope it's an internet thing and not a personality issue.
Scarecrow likes to "correct" people on any minute detail that might not be perfectly 100 percent correct. It's annoying as hell and the results are predictable. I suspect it's more the way the posts are written rather than a character flaw. At least I hope it's an internet thing and not a personality issue.
RevolverRodger
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in QC
Oh I'm so happy, I will be able to spend tons off cash to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
Seriously, I'll keep the cash and get one of the new 762 rifles that are going to show up...
Seriously, I'll keep the cash and get one of the new 762 rifles that are going to show up...
Kalashnikov started working on the AK-47 in 1942, while recovering from a wound at an army hospital. The STG44 did not enter production until 1944; at that time, AK's design was already well under way. I don't see how Kalashnikov could have "copied" the STG44 two years prior to its introduction. In the absence of time travel, it simply isn't a physical possibility.
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The first AK-47s to come out were stamped. 1948-1951. After that they were milled receivers until the AKM which was stamped after they worked out the production issues.
Umm no actually the rifle he first designed was a carbine that lost out to the SKS prototype. The AK-47 was design started in 1944 and entered competition in 1946. There were reports that he studied a captured STG44. Plus by that time the effects of the STG44 on the Eastern front were well known. The Germans proved the concept of an assault rifle on the battlefield. Kalashnikov took note.
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I push exactitude's because at the end of the day people take and distort what they learn off this board anyways, so best they start as close to the truth as possible. Too many people get to pretend to know facts and poor people go on to share these falsehoods onto other poor listeners and by the end of the day the 45ACP has huge knockdown power and the M16 is the most unreliable rifle in the world. We've all seen it.
