Casting Bullets Questions

Dick357mag

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I've reloaded for a number of years but would like to try my hand at casting bullets for an old Winchester lever in 38-55 caliber. Any suggestions> Where do I begin? Are all bullet molds the same or are some makes superior to others? Are the mold handles interchangeable from one brand of mold to another? And what size of mold should I buy for the 38-55?

These bullets will eventually be pushed along with black powder, so any load suggestions would also be appreciated.
Thanks folks
Dick357mag :sniper:
 
####: Some general comments.

Slug the bore of your rifle before ordering a mould. Done by forcing a pure lead slug through a lightly lubricated bore. Measure the diameter carefully with a micrometer.
Get a mould that will cast bullets about .002 larger than maximum bore size.
Lyman and RCBS make good basic moulds. NEI and Saeco and a couple others are semi-custom . Lee is bottom of the heap. They are inexpensive and usually have issues to deal with but can be made to work well if you have patience and/or experience in tuning moulds. You get what you pay for in moulds.

Get a good manual such as Lymans Cast Bullet Handbook and do some reading for background.

If you are going to shoot black powder only you can probably be well satisfied with a plain base mould. If you want to shoot them faster than you can with black powder by using smokeless you may consider a mould with provision for a gas check.
Bullets used with black powder are usually softer than bullets used with smokeless powder. Closer to pure lead for black powder than those used with smokeless.

You might want to contact Ben Hunchak here and try some of his before you commit yourself to any equipment. I think he can provide you with different sizes and hardness to experiment with.
 
Def. what stocker said...Saeco are probably the best readily avail. moulds, I probably have half of the ones they make and they are trouble free and make great bullets. You will have to determine bore dia. before you order a mold as too small a bullet will not shoot well, it will lead the barrel, be inaccurate and if badly undersize; will keyhole. You will also have to look at a method of lubing and sizing, the lee molds and sizing equip. is very limited esp. when it comes to Black Powder.
 
If you have to get a custom mould check out mountainmolds.com, you can design your own moulds on his interactive web site and they are excellent quality and reasonably priced. I have 3 of his moulds for my 500 S&W. I also cast 0.375" gas checked bullets for my 375 Winchester and they shoot great out of my BB94, though your bore could be up to 0.004" larger.
 
If you use pure lead for blackpowder bullets then slightly undersized bullets will still shoot well. I have used muzzleloading rifles where pure lead slugs (no patches) literally rattle down the barrel by themselves. The ramrod is only used to seat the bullets on the powder. Yet these are very accurate target rifles.

As stoker said, Lee moulds can be OK with a bit of cleanup work. I remember seeing a website that went through a detailed procedure of how to clean and "adjust" lee moulds to preform quite well.
 
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As stoker said, Lee moulds can be OK with a bit of cleanup work. I remember seeing a website that went through a detailed procedure of how to clean and "adjust" lee moulds to preform quite well.

Having used Lee, RCBS, and Lyman molds it has been my experience that in order to get good bullets the mold has to be free of oil. Issues with the lee mold were resolved by a good cleaning with break clean, then lightly lubing the sprue plate screw with an wax/alox bullet lube.
Remember to smoke the mold with a wooden (wax free) match - not a candle,
and when lube the sprue screw (sparingly) do so with the mold hot and before you knock the sprue off.

I have very seldom had to tinker with a lee mold to get it to cast good bullets and I have used over fifty different lee molds. The first 150 grain lee mold I purchased in 1976 has cast close to 10,000 bullets and it doesn't look worn at all. All I did was follow the instructions in the manual that came with it.
If you do not let the bullet cool a smear of lead with start sticking to the bottom of the sprue plate. This can be removed with very fine steel wool while the mold is hot. Make sure the steel wool has no oil in it.
Sometimes I think the problems and complaints about Lee molds are sometimes overstated.

Aluminum molds are different from iron molds. Aluminum molds require smoking of the cavity, lube on the sprue plate screw, and sometimes a hardwood dowel to tap the hinge to drop bullets.
I don't hit the sprue plate on any of my molds I use an insulated leather glove to pop the sprue off. I also wait ten to fifteen seconds or more after the sprue goes solid before I pop the sprue as well.

One of the major problems with casting is solid impurities in the alloy. Keep your lead pot clean. I use my lead pot for casting only. I clean wheel weights and salvage lead with a cast iron dutch oven that will hold about 75 lb of lead over a propane burner. I have found that melting large batches allows me to get a cleaner alloy and the results are fewer problems with casting and fewer reject bullets. When you think you have the alloy clean, flux it and clean the dross again.

In general when casting a large sprue will give a more consistently filled out bullet, and also the weight variation drops. If you are having problems filling the mold, increase the temperature of the pot. If you are getting bullet frosting don't worry, drop the temp of the pot slightly and wait a few seconds longer with the mold empty and open before pouring the next one.

Wrinkles on the bullet are an indication of 1) a cold mold 2) oil in the mold 3) alloy temp in pot not hot enough 4) alloy needs a bit more tin.

The base of your cast bullet should fill out square to the sprue plate and not be rounded. A large sprue has the weight to do this.

Check the underside of the sprue plate, if you start to see a smear of lead you are popping the sprue plate too soon. clean with steel wool. wait a few seconds longer after the sprue hardens. I have purchased several Lee molds that have the blocks under the sprue plate scored from this. These molds can be salvaged.

Watch for flakes of lead or debris in the pin area and in the vents. Clean the vents if the mold has issues filling out.

Make sure the mold is closed and in alignment before filling it as well.

Get a micrometer.
Get the Lyman cast bullet handbook #3 edition.
Flux...
 
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I have tried a few Lee moulds and they prove the old credo that you get what you pay for, spend the extra money and buy a quality mould that is made properly and works right the first time. As stated above I have aluminum block moulds from Mountain Molds, NEI and LBT and they are all high quality and produce excellent bullets. The latest Lee mould I tried for my 500 S&W is the worst one I ever bought, it overheats easily due to the marginal sized mould block for the size of the bullet and it is impossible to cast a round bullet with it. The two halves of the block will not align properly and I am not interested in trying to tune or align it mainly because I hate junk that doesn't work right. I have also been casting for many years and that last Lee mould is a disgrace to the company in my opinion. I know this sounds like a bit of a rant but I thought that I should share my experiences with Lee moulds since I have had different luck with them than the luck 10X above has.
 
Yup, i use almost every type/manufacturer of molds, and will only use Lee molds as a last resort, i usually use 3 molds at a time, this is not possible with the Lee as they cool too quickly. I have had lee molds fall apart in my hands while casting a few times, but I modify mine alot to make them work. I like Saeco,RCBS, NEI, Lyman, Hoch, pretty much anything except Lee, and i cast many thousand bullets a week on the average.
 
I have tried a few Lee moulds and they prove the old credo that you get what you pay for, spend the extra money and buy a quality mould that is made properly and works right the first time. As stated above I have aluminum block moulds from Mountain Molds, NEI and LBT and they are all high quality and produce excellent bullets. The latest Lee mould I tried for my 500 S&W is the worst one I ever bought, it overheats easily due to the marginal sized mould block for the size of the bullet and it is impossible to cast a round bullet with it. The two halves of the block will not align properly and I am not interested in trying to tune or align it mainly because I hate junk that doesn't work right. I have also been casting for many years and that last Lee mould is a disgrace to the company in my opinion. I know this sounds like a bit of a rant but I thought that I should share my experiences with Lee moulds since I have had different luck with them than the luck 10X above has.

Try turning down the temperature on your lead pot, An aluminum mold with cast good bullets using a lower alloy temperature than an iron mold.
Over heated aluminum blocks will be difficult to close as well.
If you can't get a Lee mold to cast a good bullet after following the instructions, send it back to Mr. Lee.

I have run three molds at a time when casting large diameter bullets.
two are always cooling while I'm dropping the bullet from the third and refilling it. It seems to take care of any overheating problems.

1) If your lee mold is over heating it will result in out of round bullets. I have a lee .577 mini mold that will overheat quickly. It takes about a minute to cast a bullet with cooling time. I have resorted to cooling the mold by puttng a wet towel in a shallow pan and resting the bottom of the mold on it while the bullet cools - and dipping the tip of the sprue plate into a pan of water to keep the blocks cool. I have a set of Lyman .577 mini blocks that over heat as well. Getting the iron lyman mold to cast a good bullet and NOT go out of alignment when hot is how I figured out the wet towel trick. That is the only Lee mold that I have had any real problem with.
I also turn down the pot temperature when the mold shows signs of overheating.

Try casting 577 bullets with a brass mold. That is a true challenge. You can get a not bad bullet out of a brass mold. Getting a consistent bullet with a brass mold is a leaning experience.

2) Lee molds can be returned to the factory if they don't cast a good bullet.

Generally I have found that the rules for using a Lee mold are a bit different. You can cast with a lower alloy temperature, You really do have to smoke the mold with a non waxy flame - it does make a difference.
A failure to lubricate the pins and sprue plate will cause "alignment problems".
So will a small bit of lead between the mold blocks.

I have yet to have a new Lee mold out of the box that didn't cast an acceptable bullet when I followed their instructions. I have bought used Lee molds that have had issues that were usually resolved by a thorough cleaning and smoking with a wooden match (wax free).

As for out of round my micrometer tells me there are very few bullet molds that cast close to round bullets. My shooting tells me that an oversize bullet that is slightly out of round doesn't seem to matter as much as having a sharp edge on the bullet base and sorting the bullets by weight. In 45/70 I also orient the bullets in the bore by using an index mark on the nose of the bullet ( an airvent cut .002 deeper on one block). This caused my groups to drop from 2 1/2 inches to about an inch at 100 meters - go figure.

The most problem with an aluminum block load is with an oil or varnish in the mold. It doesn't seem to burn off as quickly as with an iron mold.
If a lee mold casts a wrinkled bullet I clean it immediately in brake kleen, rince it with alcohol, air dry it, and smoke it.

When a Lee mold works well it works extremely well. When it doesn't work well, take a few minutes to clean it, get it warm, and lube the pins. Lee molds have also taught me how to cast better with iron molds.

For what it is worth I do have several lyman molds that I have purchased brand new that do not cast bullets that shoot accurately. I have a .225415 that is supposed to throw a 0.225" bullet but what comes out is 0.224 on the mold line, and 0.2235" at 90 degrees to the mold line. Bullets from this mold give pie plate groups at 100 metres from any gun. A used .225415 off of ebay that casts a bullet that is 0.2255" (cast line) by 0.225" (90 degrees off the cast line) will give groups that are under an inch.

My buddy has several custom molds for his 45/70. He was complaining about poor bullets and he had purchased several molds in succession because the molds were not giving him good bullets. I gave him 75 lb of pure cleaned lead and a 1/4 lb of clean tin. He was very pleased with all of the bullets cast from that alloy. I had trouble casting 314299 bullets from 5 lb of his alloy that he gave me. I remelted the cast bullets, fluxed and cleaned the alloy really well - as well as cleaning my lead pot and the second batch of bullets cast just fine. I suspect the problem was small solid particles suspended in the alloy that a second cleaning removed.

I have found that it doesn't take luck, it takes a clean alloy that is heated to the proper casting temperature, a clean mold that is properly smoked, and the patience to let the bullet cool in the mold before opening the blocks. Get the timing right and the bullet will usually drop from the mold blocks by gravity or a light tap on the handle hinge. Open too soon and the bullet may stick in one block ( or the other). You really know you are opening the mold too soon when the bullet sags or deforms as it is falling to the drop cloth or bucket of water. (I've used both)

Iron molds seem to dissipate heat faster and have a shorter cooling time.

I have a Lee mold that throws a 180 grain bullet and a very similar lyman mold that throws a 180 grain bullet. Bullets cast from both molds shoot to the same point of impact with the same load from the same gun. Groups from both bullets are under 2" at 100 metres. All being said you can't tell what mold cast the bullets by looking at them or shooting them.
Both molds cast well with a clean alloy - the lee heats up faster and gives good bullets sooner.
 
That's some really good advice 10x. I have been using Lee molds only, as my resources haven't allowed me to purchase the more expensive molds. If I can offer another little piece of advice about Lee molds, try to avoid the molds with tumble lube grooves. These are the molds that are designed for tumble lubing in liquid alox, I find that the bullets stick inside of these molds something fierce. I had a round nose 45 acp mold that the bullets stuck so bady that I actually pounded the mold to pieces with my wooden mallet. From now on I purchase only standard lube groove molds, and when used at the right temperature, with good clean alloy, you can produce very nice bullets. I also like to size my bullets, although Lee claims that you don't have to I do anyway.
 
That's some really good advice 10x. I have been using Lee molds only, as my resources haven't allowed me to purchase the more expensive molds. If I can offer another little piece of advice about Lee molds, try to avoid the molds with tumble lube grooves. These are the molds that are designed for tumble lubing in liquid alox, I find that the bullets stick inside of these molds something fierce. I had a round nose 45 acp mold that the bullets stuck so bady that I actually pounded the mold to pieces with my wooden mallet. From now on I purchase only standard lube groove molds, and when used at the right temperature, with good clean alloy, you can produce very nice bullets. I also like to size my bullets, although Lee claims that you don't have to I do anyway.

I have a six cavity mold for 9MM Luger in a tumble lube design. All six bullets drop out when the mold is opened. It is very seldom I have to give the hinge a light tap.
I would guess that I have been very lucky with the Lee molds I have used over the years.
If you have a Lee mold that needs a sharp rap to drop bullets call Lee about it. They have a great support and service department.

And once you get a mold working well and dropping acceptable bullets, Lee, Lyman, RCBS, or any other brand, it is very easy to keep them working well. When a mold quits working well, it may well be something you did starting with the temperature of your alloy or a hint of oil on the blocks.
If you do have to tune a "mold", you may only ever have to do it once so long as your treat it gently like you would treat your rifle. Bash it about and it will get resentful and quit working for you.
 
This guy has some really interesting videos discussing and showing many of the techniques mentioned here. He really seems to know his stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=ammosmith

Excellent video on sizing. Installing the HI die is much easier if the threads in the press are cleaned out with brake Kleen and a Q tip. That sucker should thread down to the last turn with finger pressure. Good tip on aligning the die with the top ram as well.

My compliments to this fellow.
 
Casting is great, if you can get your hands on enough lead.

RCBS & Lyman make great molds. Lee has some really cool boolit designs but not a fan of the aluminum. That isn't to say I won't use 'em, because I do. Just the cast iron molds are not so sensitive to temperature and filling out good boolits. The other problem with Lee is trying to match the completed boolit with a RCBS or Lyman top punch.
 
The other problem with Lee is trying to match the completed boolit with a RCBS or Lyman top punch.

If you really get into casting I would suggest buying a used Star or new Magma Star lube sizer. No worries about different top punches as bullets are fed nose first with a flat punch and the bullets go straight through which at least triples your sizing rate. I picked one up used with the heater years ago and haven't touched my old Lyman since. I have seen quite a few on eBay over the last year.

magmaengr.com/products.php
 
Casting is great, if you can get your hands on enough lead.

RCBS & Lyman make great molds. Lee has some really cool boolit designs but not a fan of the aluminum. That isn't to say I won't use 'em, because I do. Just the cast iron molds are not so sensitive to temperature and filling out good boolits. The other problem with Lee is trying to match the completed boolit with a RCBS or Lyman top punch.

Or the alternative to the RCBS, Lyman, or Star is the Lee sizer die. There is nothing wrong with the hot pan full of lube and a cartridge case to cut them out.
I have found that regular lube plus a layer of Lee Liquid alox after sizing allows slightly higher velocities before I get leading.
How I lube my cast bullets depends on the gun I'm casting for, and how I feel at the time.
I sometimes use a lyman 310 tool and the push through die designed for it, or the Lee push through sizing die. My only complaint is that Lee does not make these sizers in enough diameters. My marlin 30/30 will shoot a .310 or .311 sized bullet far more accurately than a .308 or .309.
And a .315 / 316 / 318 sizer would be appreciated for those .303s with just that extra bit of bore.
As well all of my 45/70 rifles shoot better with a .458 or 459 bullet, or as cast than with a .458 sized bullet.

And today I proved once more that a Marlin 336 microgroove barrel will shoot cast bullets reasonably accurately with several 1.5" groups (five shots Lee C309-113-F bullets sized to .311 in front of 8 grains of Unique). If I were younger and steadier that group would very likely be much smaller.
The C309-113-F mold works extremely well for me, giving me excellent cast bullets from the third or forth bullet until the ten pound pot is empty with no hassles.

Remember as well that if you want the best accuracy from a cast bullet you will have to get the copper fouling out of that barrel. Brake Kleen gets the powder residue out. Household ammonia eats the copper. If you are still concerned about copper fouling then a couple of patches of powder solvent and then Sweets as a double check. The patches should come out clean.
Don't forget to run an oily patch down the bore as well, then run a dry patch down to take out excess oil.

Remember as well that when you push a cast bullet to higher velocities with harder alloys ie electrotype the risk of leading increases. This is when a good lube comes into play and why I sometimes use Lyman lube plus liquid alox.
 
I sometimes use a lyman 310 tool and the push through die designed for it, or the Lee push through sizing die. My only complaint is that Lee does not make these sizers in enough diameters.

Another advantage to the Star lube sizer is that the sizing dies are made to your required diameter and to the profile of your bullet, from their web site:

Dies are available from .218 through .585. When ordering Star Dies please give us the size and if more than one grease groove the distance (center to center) of the grease grooves.
 
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