Well it arrived today what a disappointment .I'll be calling them tomorrow Had Jim describe it to me before I placed a absentee bid . It has a Re pro barrel that someone has tried to antique the grips are re pro the frame is rusty as heck on the inside Its about a $500.00 dollar wall hanger that I paid 3 times that for because the barrel has been changed there is no way to prove its antique. the serial # is in tacked under grip but no barrel marking the Italian ones have been ground off. what a pile of junk What do you guys think? PS I know auctions are buyer beware but I think this piece was misrepresented.
My 1858 Rem. arived from Bud Haynes what a P.O.S>
- Thread starter DEZ
- Start date
Hey Dez,
Which one was that...C-56 or E-68? The latter was the one that I thought was in better shape of the two but I only had about a minute of viewing with each and had just driven 1 1/2 hrs to get there so I could have missed a fair bit. Sorry to hear that it wasn't as represented and hope you have some recourse.
Blair
Which one was that...C-56 or E-68? The latter was the one that I thought was in better shape of the two but I only had about a minute of viewing with each and had just driven 1 1/2 hrs to get there so I could have missed a fair bit. Sorry to hear that it wasn't as represented and hope you have some recourse.
Blair
- Location
- West coast of Vancouver Island
Good luck, it would be a pisser to lose $1500 on a piece of crap.
cheers
cheers
sorry that hapened to you dez. But I think Andy is close to the mark on this.
However if the seller misrepresented it grossly (i.e told you NRA antique fine condition when it was obviously poor)
I know I sound like a broken record but the easiest way to avoid disapointment is to not look for great deals, look to pay top dollar for the best examples. better to pay a couple hundred too much for a gun with real value then to loose a 1000 trying to save the same amount.
If you really feel you got mislead then pursue some satisfaction through the seller or possibley through your credit card.
However if the seller misrepresented it grossly (i.e told you NRA antique fine condition when it was obviously poor)
I know I sound like a broken record but the easiest way to avoid disapointment is to not look for great deals, look to pay top dollar for the best examples. better to pay a couple hundred too much for a gun with real value then to loose a 1000 trying to save the same amount.
If you really feel you got mislead then pursue some satisfaction through the seller or possibley through your credit card.
It's tough buying at an auction with a fax bid, especially when it is a collector grade firearm. With hundreds of guns from new to flintlocks you can't expect one guy to be expert enough in all types to give reliable evaluations. I bought 4 SxS shoguns from one of their auctions with a fax bid and discussed them with Jim before placing the bids. 2 were okay deals, 2 I wouldn't have bought if I had a chance to see them first at any price. But that is the chance you take without checking them out in person. I'm sorry you aren't happy with your purchase, but I doubt that you will get any satisfaction from Haines.
Talked to Jim today he said to return it and that he would take care of it if it was all original and in poor shape I would not have a leg to stand on but because the barrel at least has been changed there is no way to prove the action is antique and I have my doubts as I have a nice example of an original and the serial # under the gripps is stamped differently. But they treated me well and said they would take care of it can't ask for better than that.
- Location
- Algoma region
Ive been burned with a 1860 army...
Its been re case hardened and has a new barrel etcetera ad nauseum..
I still have her though its been a couple years,The seller disappeared after the money was received..Que Serra Que Serra
I have grown to love her," as I could never EVER sell her honestly for what I payed for her"
shes kinda like the insane step child in the attic,
I love her and work on her time to time but I know I can only do so much.
Being Canadian I think the yanks sometimes try to take advantage of us with crazy price hikes.
We should start a sticky thread called over priced dream antiques we squandered hard earned dollars on.
I bet that would get some interesting posts.
Cheers guys!
Its been re case hardened and has a new barrel etcetera ad nauseum..
I still have her though its been a couple years,The seller disappeared after the money was received..Que Serra Que Serra
I have grown to love her," as I could never EVER sell her honestly for what I payed for her"
shes kinda like the insane step child in the attic,
I love her and work on her time to time but I know I can only do so much.
Being Canadian I think the yanks sometimes try to take advantage of us with crazy price hikes.
We should start a sticky thread called over priced dream antiques we squandered hard earned dollars on.
I bet that would get some interesting posts.
Cheers guys!
This is not someones honest mistake....these guys had to know what they were selling! Too bad we, as a group, couldn't put some pressure on the outfit. Bad publicity, or the threat of it, can do wonders. I have been burned by a fellow Gunnutter with the promise of a deal in the future and then he just forgot about me. There should be a forum and a write in campaign for these crooks. It's fraud at least and is a criminal offence in both countries.
Bud Haynes has a long deserved reputation for parts disappearing off of firearms sold there that are not picked up right away. They will not accept responsibility for any firearm once the hammer drops.
If you can't see the firearm first hand and take it home with you, you are taking a risk. Also realize shill bidding is a risk at all auctions.
If you can't see the firearm first hand and take it home with you, you are taking a risk. Also realize shill bidding is a risk at all auctions.
Yes - and read and understand the rules. Build the commission and exhorbitant Shipping and Handling costs into it as well.
I lost a cleaning rod "in transit" off a Swiss Vetterli worth a good $150. I got a Steyr M95 that was a training rifle (but not advertized as such) that had a big hole cut in the barrel ahead of the receiver - how do you miss that? I had a $80 S&H bill that I thought was just a tad (i.e. 2X) high.
So I stopped Absentee bidding unless I had eyes on the ground, or my bid was low enough that there was only up-side should I win.
That's just the way it is with auctions like this and not only Bud Haynes. They are covered six ways to Sunday, and from their perspective, they have to be, and we as bidders are accepting all the risk.
Last edited:
Dez and Musketfire,
I am sorry to hear about your experiences with an auction and U.S. dealer purchase of these types of Civil War revolvers.
I have never purchased anything through an auction, so I am not speaking from any ...“Been there…done that” history.
I have gotten close to purchasing some stuff that I might have regretted but I requested many photos if the gun was not close enough to physically inspect.
I understand that is not always possible, however the better auction outfits should be able to provide very good photos showing various views of the gun.
I would be very careful in purchasing a “meaningful ticket” item without this.
These guns in decent condition command healthy dollars in the U.S. so if you think you are going to get a bargain for a correct original piece you will have to be very lucky.
(For Colts)- Correct markings including matching serial numbers on all relevant parts ,clarity of the cylinder scene, remaining original finish with consistant overall age patina on the gun, inspector's acceptance cartouche(s) on the grips, .....these are all important factors in establishing what these guns are worth.
The New Model 1858 Remington Army revolver shown below I bought many years ago from a private collector in the tranquility of his basement…… so that does not count.
The Model 1860 Colt Army revolver (early 1863 production) I bought at the Gettysburg show in June 2001 for what I thought was a reasonable price.
(Albeit the exchange rate on the U.S. dollar was not favourable at that time.)
It was a two day show,….and it took me two days to make up my mind to purchase it.
I was definitely not very fast off the mark, and the gun was still there when I decided to buy it from an older seasoned dealer from New York City.
________________________________________________________________________________
There is an interesting story that goes with the purchase of this gun.
While I was sitting in the bar of the Eisenhower Hotel in Gettysburg where the show was being held the night before the show started, the dealer that I eventually bought the Colt from was sitting talking to some of his friends at the bar and I heard him say that it was approx. 25 years that he had been exhibiting at that Gettysburg show.
The next day when I saw his gun he said ....."Take a look at what everyone else is asking....I am here to sell my guns".
Sure enough most of the other sellers prices were substantially higher....and he said...."they are foolish....they will never sell anything".
He was a wise man....and he accepted a Canadian cheque plus cash.
There were problems with the dam Canadian cheque but it all got sorted out later.
I got to the Canadian Customs at the Thousand Islands Bridge and no one understood what an antique firearm was.
I ended up buying a tiny luggage lock at the duty free shop to put on my suitcase and everything was O.K.....two hours later.
I will never forget this Model 1860 Colt Army from the Gettysburg show, and this wise old dealer…..he was great.
__________________________________________________________________________________
It is a decent honest gun, nothing outstanding,….but I liked it.
It was an important purchase for me so I got a few different opinions from some knowledgeable people that I met at that show.
If you have the luxury of taking your time and doing your homework before you leap,…so much the better.
If you only want one example of a particular gun for your collection,…..take your time,….if you can.
I already owned a Model 1860 Colt Army which I may have acquired too quickly,…although it is a nice “gray gun” with faint markings.
The moral of the story is that I had to go through the exercise twice to get one gun for my collection.
David
This is my first Model 1860 Colt Army revolver (1862 production) which was part of a trade that included some other pieces.
Another "gray gun" with faint markings ,that was purchased around the same time....Model 1861 Colt Navy revolver, manufactured in 1861.
These Pattern 1863 holsters for the Remington and Colt Army revolvers are somewhat difficult to find in decent shape with manufacturers markings.
(This one is "E. ###lord, Chicoppee Mass" marked.)
An example of a "martially marked" Model 1851 Navy revolver with no remaining original finish, but with very clear markings, cylinder scene, and matching serial numbers, and visable grip cartouche.
(Late Third Model 1851 Colt Navy... manufactured in 1857.)
These "martial...US marked" 51 Colt Navies are becoming difficult to find.
These '51 Navies that Colt furnished to the U.S. Army are known as 'Navy-Armies'.
I bought this gun over the telephone on December 5 1990 from;
David Condon Inc.
Middleburg Va. U.S.A.
He is a high-end dealer,....and I wanted a Martial 1851 Colt Navy.
A bit reckless on my part....I am pleased with the gun but I would not do it the same way today.
In the photo below the packet of .36 cal. Whitney cartridges (second row far left) were also used with the '51 Colt Navy revolver, the skin cartridge with the flap shown in the first row (far right) is a .36 caliber skin cartridge.
The bullet mold shown in the top right corner of the photo is for a Colt .44cal. and the cylinder is for a Remington Army revolver.
This Starr Arms Co. D.A. 1858 Army Revolver came from the same collector as the Remington revolver shown above.
Sometimes good luck -"right place --right time" plays a huge part in this collecting game.
This gun has the most original finish of any of the Civil War revolvers that I own.
It is interesting how trade deals come together. (Another way to build a collection.)
The collector I got the first Colt 1860 Army revolver from was also the source of this New Model 1863 Sharps carbine;….trades can generate interesting results if you have something that someone else wants.
I suspect that this collector has regretted the day that he traded this gun? (He has told me so.)
This is an 1867 conversion to the 50-70 metallic centerfire cartridge from the Civil War percussion .52 caliber.
The “DFC” inspector’s markings on the stock are present on these conversions.
The Civil War carbine cartridge box shown below was also modified to accommodate the 50-70 center fire cartridge.
The Model 1849 Colt Pocket .31 caliber revolver was not an issued martial sidearm, however it was widely carried by soldiers of both the North and the South.
This particular example is totally serial number matching as well as retaining much of the original silver plating on the grip straps and triggerguard with an excellent clear cylinder scene.
Shown below is a .31 cal. Colt bullet mold for Model 1849 Pocket revolver.
A Civil War percussion Smith carbine showing markings.
Model 1860 Spencer carbine.
I am sorry to hear about your experiences with an auction and U.S. dealer purchase of these types of Civil War revolvers.
I have never purchased anything through an auction, so I am not speaking from any ...“Been there…done that” history.
I have gotten close to purchasing some stuff that I might have regretted but I requested many photos if the gun was not close enough to physically inspect.
I understand that is not always possible, however the better auction outfits should be able to provide very good photos showing various views of the gun.
I would be very careful in purchasing a “meaningful ticket” item without this.
These guns in decent condition command healthy dollars in the U.S. so if you think you are going to get a bargain for a correct original piece you will have to be very lucky.
(For Colts)- Correct markings including matching serial numbers on all relevant parts ,clarity of the cylinder scene, remaining original finish with consistant overall age patina on the gun, inspector's acceptance cartouche(s) on the grips, .....these are all important factors in establishing what these guns are worth.
The New Model 1858 Remington Army revolver shown below I bought many years ago from a private collector in the tranquility of his basement…… so that does not count.
The Model 1860 Colt Army revolver (early 1863 production) I bought at the Gettysburg show in June 2001 for what I thought was a reasonable price.
(Albeit the exchange rate on the U.S. dollar was not favourable at that time.)
It was a two day show,….and it took me two days to make up my mind to purchase it.
I was definitely not very fast off the mark, and the gun was still there when I decided to buy it from an older seasoned dealer from New York City.
________________________________________________________________________________
There is an interesting story that goes with the purchase of this gun.
While I was sitting in the bar of the Eisenhower Hotel in Gettysburg where the show was being held the night before the show started, the dealer that I eventually bought the Colt from was sitting talking to some of his friends at the bar and I heard him say that it was approx. 25 years that he had been exhibiting at that Gettysburg show.
The next day when I saw his gun he said ....."Take a look at what everyone else is asking....I am here to sell my guns".
Sure enough most of the other sellers prices were substantially higher....and he said...."they are foolish....they will never sell anything".
He was a wise man....and he accepted a Canadian cheque plus cash.
There were problems with the dam Canadian cheque but it all got sorted out later.
I got to the Canadian Customs at the Thousand Islands Bridge and no one understood what an antique firearm was.
I ended up buying a tiny luggage lock at the duty free shop to put on my suitcase and everything was O.K.....two hours later.
I will never forget this Model 1860 Colt Army from the Gettysburg show, and this wise old dealer…..he was great.
__________________________________________________________________________________
It is a decent honest gun, nothing outstanding,….but I liked it.
It was an important purchase for me so I got a few different opinions from some knowledgeable people that I met at that show.
If you have the luxury of taking your time and doing your homework before you leap,…so much the better.
If you only want one example of a particular gun for your collection,…..take your time,….if you can.
I already owned a Model 1860 Colt Army which I may have acquired too quickly,…although it is a nice “gray gun” with faint markings.
The moral of the story is that I had to go through the exercise twice to get one gun for my collection.
David
This is my first Model 1860 Colt Army revolver (1862 production) which was part of a trade that included some other pieces.
Another "gray gun" with faint markings ,that was purchased around the same time....Model 1861 Colt Navy revolver, manufactured in 1861.
These Pattern 1863 holsters for the Remington and Colt Army revolvers are somewhat difficult to find in decent shape with manufacturers markings.
(This one is "E. ###lord, Chicoppee Mass" marked.)
An example of a "martially marked" Model 1851 Navy revolver with no remaining original finish, but with very clear markings, cylinder scene, and matching serial numbers, and visable grip cartouche.
(Late Third Model 1851 Colt Navy... manufactured in 1857.)
These "martial...US marked" 51 Colt Navies are becoming difficult to find.
These '51 Navies that Colt furnished to the U.S. Army are known as 'Navy-Armies'.
I bought this gun over the telephone on December 5 1990 from;
David Condon Inc.
Middleburg Va. U.S.A.
He is a high-end dealer,....and I wanted a Martial 1851 Colt Navy.
A bit reckless on my part....I am pleased with the gun but I would not do it the same way today.
In the photo below the packet of .36 cal. Whitney cartridges (second row far left) were also used with the '51 Colt Navy revolver, the skin cartridge with the flap shown in the first row (far right) is a .36 caliber skin cartridge.
The bullet mold shown in the top right corner of the photo is for a Colt .44cal. and the cylinder is for a Remington Army revolver.
This Starr Arms Co. D.A. 1858 Army Revolver came from the same collector as the Remington revolver shown above.
Sometimes good luck -"right place --right time" plays a huge part in this collecting game.
This gun has the most original finish of any of the Civil War revolvers that I own.
It is interesting how trade deals come together. (Another way to build a collection.)
The collector I got the first Colt 1860 Army revolver from was also the source of this New Model 1863 Sharps carbine;….trades can generate interesting results if you have something that someone else wants.
I suspect that this collector has regretted the day that he traded this gun? (He has told me so.)
This is an 1867 conversion to the 50-70 metallic centerfire cartridge from the Civil War percussion .52 caliber.
The “DFC” inspector’s markings on the stock are present on these conversions.
The Civil War carbine cartridge box shown below was also modified to accommodate the 50-70 center fire cartridge.
The Model 1849 Colt Pocket .31 caliber revolver was not an issued martial sidearm, however it was widely carried by soldiers of both the North and the South.
This particular example is totally serial number matching as well as retaining much of the original silver plating on the grip straps and triggerguard with an excellent clear cylinder scene.
Shown below is a .31 cal. Colt bullet mold for Model 1849 Pocket revolver.
A Civil War percussion Smith carbine showing markings.
Model 1860 Spencer carbine.
Last edited:
