Quietest deer round...

1899

1899

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I want to take my 2 year old hunting this year. I will make sure he is wearing hearing protection, but I still would rather use a "quiet" round/load.

I am not interested in subsonic loads at this time, nor will I be able to use archery/crossbow equipment. We will be hunting for Whitetail deer (I have a doe draw) and I suspect we should be able to get within 150 yards of our prey.

I have a .30-30 I could use and I was thinking of a light load in that rifle. Or maybe a reduced load in my 7mm RM - the load calls for SR4759 which I found to also be fairly quiet, but dirty, in handguns. I also found that a muzzleloader with black powder is relatively quiet, but I no longer own one. I know velocity and barrel length are important factors. Is burn rate an important factor in noise? Or is it the weight of the powder charge? Perhaps both?

I don't really have the $ right now for new purchases, but any suggestions would be appreciated. BTW I have many years of experience so I am aware of the need for patience, proper shot placement and acceptance of overall limitations.

Having said all that, what would you use if noise was a major factor in your decision?
 
Maybe get the kid a set of electronic hearing protection? I'd guess that he would be more likely to keep them on at all times if he could hear EVERYTHING. :D
 
juanvaldez said:
Reduced load 30-30...why? Leave your son at hone until he is old enough to get something out of the experience.
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I see. So he gets "nothing" out of going out into the forest, looking at birds, trees and plants? He gets nothing out of spending time with hid dad? Maybe I should just plop him in front of the TV.:mad:

I think taking your kids hunting with you is a great way to start them off. Even when they are two.

And regarding the reduced .30-30 load - the reason is in my original post.
 
You can make reduced loads from H4895, and you can use Trailboss in 30-30, even thier max loads aren't that high, but they are all loud enough to scare a 2 year old.

Can the kid stick his fingers in his ears?
 
Do you really think you can keep ear protection on a 2 year old? Can you look after a 2 year old while you are preparing to shoot your "prey".

Sorry...this just reminds me of the threads I've read where people are wondering what caliber is a good choice for their 4 year old grand-daughter to use for her first deer. I realize you are only bringing your son as a spectator and I'm only using my own experiences where I hunt and what my children are like so maybe things are different for you.

Didn't mean to sound judgmental. As long as it's safe it's all good, right?
 
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You will never be able to reduce a centerfire round to the point where it would not harm a childs hearing...either find a set of headphones that you can get to fit him (and keep on his head) or leave him at home. Personally I think 2 is a little young. Trying to juggle looking after him, making sure he is safe, has his hearing protection on etc, etc...while getting a good ethical shot at game is going to HARD. Scouting trips...fine. Hunting...well???
 
16.5grs. of 4759 for the 30/30 or better still the subsonic .300 Whisper....there is another thread on here about the whisper. It is a favorite of mine, although I use it for bench testing and may use for small game.
 
how do you plan on dressing the animal and carrying it out while looking after a 2 year old?? Nevermind making sure he has hearing protection actually on correctlywhen you pull the trigger. I have a 2 year old, and I certainly wouldn't take the child hunting with me. I already have a .22 single shot purchased for the child, but won't let it be used till much older.
There are TONNES of appropriate times to take a child in the woods, but hunting isn't one of them (just my opinion... I am certainly NOT commenting on your abilities as a Father, I have no doubt you are excellent, and wanting to include your child in your activities is something I see less and less of these days) BUT , do you think that shooting an animal in front of a young child possibly could have a detrimental affect? At least until they can dissassociate "Bambi" from supper. Again I am only expressing my opinion, which is definately NOT casting stones. Just my perspective. I just know that my child takes all my attention, and If I dropped an animal in the woods, I would find that to be a cirque du soliel class juggling act.
 
My wife and most likely my brother will be with us and he has no problems keeping ear protection on - so yes, we can look after a 2 year old while we wait for a deer in a ground blind. And yes, I am sure that between the three adults we will be able to dress a deer etc etc.

My kids both know where chicken and other types of food comes from - and I don't mean from the grocery store. My two year old has helped me make and knead dough to bake bread. He helps me make omlettes in the morning.

For those of you giving parenting advice - every parent does their best. For some that means allowing extreme and violent video games or having their own tv and phone etc. I take my kids fishing, hunting, camping, boating, flying and so on - we haven't had cable tv for over 5 years. Go have your own kids and do your best. Not that it means I know everything, far be it from that, but I do have a degree in psychology with a heavy slant towards child/developemental and neuro-psychology.

And if while we are out and he is too squirmy or whatever then we can call it a day and do something else. I don't need to kill something to have a successful trip.

Thanks for the tips about long barrels and fast powders and other ideas re noise.
 
1899 said:
My wife and most likely my brother will be with us and he has no problems keeping ear protection on - so yes, we can look after a 2 year old while we wait for a deer in a ground blind. And yes, I am sure that between the three adults we will be able to dress a deer etc etc.

My kids both know where chicken and other types of food comes from - and I don't mean from the grocery store. My two year old has helped me make and knead dough to bake bread. He helps me make omlettes in the morning.

For those of you giving parenting advice - every parent does their best. For some that means allowing extreme and violent video games or having their own tv and phone etc. I take my kids fishing, hunting, camping, boating, flying and so on - we haven't had cable tv for over 5 years. Go have your own kids and do your best. Not that it means I know everything, far be it from that, but I do have a degree in psychology with a heavy slant towards child/developemental and neuro-psychology.

And if while we are out and he is too squirmy or whatever then we can call it a day and do something else. I don't need to kill something to have a successful trip.

Thanks for the tips about long barrels and fast powders and other ideas re noise.
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I stand corrected, and don't mind admitting it. I was under the impression that it would be just you taking him, which I still think would be a hard but not impossible scenario. But seeing as you have several people to share the "lookout" duties , and seeing as he knows the difference between Bambi and supper, it sounds like a great Idea. I wish my old man had the patience to have taken me out when I was young. Good luck, and I hope you are successful. Even at that young age, It will be a memory he won't soon forget. Pictures are great too:):)
 
I'd guess that he would be more likely to keep them on at all times if he could hear EVERYTHING.
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I think this is a great comment and goes a long way.
How about asking this question on the reloading pages? There must be a way of reducing loads (dacron fibre) with maybe some cast bullets that would still be reliable for effectively dispatching deer
I applaud your decision to include your child in your hunt. My son was just over 2 years old when he came bird hunting with me. I took the big wheel stroller for him and had no problems walking old bush roads pushing that with the o/u 410 on top. Memories are instilled in all those taking part!
He is 4 now and anxious to go again, and I am anxious to take him too.
 
sgt.rock said:
I stand corrected, and don't mind admitting it. I was under the impression that it would be just you taking him, which I still think would be a hard but not impossible scenario. But seeing as you have several people to share the "lookout" duties , and seeing as he knows the difference between Bambi and supper, it sounds like a great Idea. I wish my old man had the patience to have taken me out when I was young. Good luck, and I hope you are successful. Even at that young age, It will be a memory he won't soon forget. Pictures are great too:):)
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I too was under the impression that it would just be the 2 of you out together...now that you have shed some light on the situation, I have no problem what-so-ever with your son going with you. From my point of view, his safety was my only concern. And I have no problem with young children being exposed to the harvesting of game. Life and death are a natural (and not so natural) part of human intellectual development. Good luck hunting :D
 
For me, I find that the higher the muzzle velocity, the louder the 'CRACK'. With that in mind, I'd tend to go with the 30-30. You can make up for a lower velocity with a heavier bullet, so I'd recommend the 170 grain cast bullet or the 180 grain RCBS cast bullet. No need to put more than 27 grains of IMR 3031 in the case. If you get your little fellow to move directly behind you when you pull the trigger, and if you can make your first shot count, it shouldn't be too bad.
 
I have some 3031 and 4759 kicking around. I will try some loads in the 30-30 with that. I was also thinking of 25gr of 4759 under a 140gr ballistic tip in the 7mm. That should be around 1800 to 1900fps vs about 1600 to 1700 for the 30-30. I'm just talking velocity here in terms of the "crack" that 38-55 mentioned. With similar velocity, similar powder and similar powder charge I guess the noise should be close too. The 7mm's barrel is 5.5" longer, so that might make a difference.

Here is some interesting data I found. I have no idea what loads/velocities were tested for these results.

CENTERFIRE RIFLE DATA
.223, 55GR. Commercial load 18 " barrel 155.5dB
.243 in 22" barrel 155.9dB
.30-30 in 20" barrel 156.0dB
7mm Magnum in 20" barrel 157.5dB
.308 in 24" barrel 156.2dB
.30-06 in 24" barrel 158.5dB
.30-06 in 18 " barrel 163.2dB
.375 18" barrel with muzzle brake 170 dB

Table 2. SHOTGUN NOISE DATA (DECIBEL AVERAGES)
.410 Bore 28" barrel 150dB
26" barrel 150.25dB
18 " barrel 156.30dB
20 Gauge 28" barrel 152.50dB
22" barrel 154.75dB
12 Gauge 28" barrel 151.50dB
26" barrel 156.10dB
18 " barrel 161.50dB
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The researcher goes on to say:
Sounds over 140dB can cause pain and prolonged exposure to noise over 85-90dB can result in permanent hearing loss. Gunfire may be categorized as an impulse noise, which has the characteristic of an explosive burst. Impulse noise of sufficient intensity and pressure is often a cause of acoustic trauma. Generally, studies have shown that such impulse sounds may result in the shifting, skewing, bending, swelling, bursting, tearing, fusing &/or severe mechanical damage to the inner ear cells, structures, and auditory pathways. That is, short-duration sounds of sufficient intensity (e.g., a gunshot or explosion) may result in an immediate, severe, and permanent hearing loss, which is termed acoustic trauma.
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A decibel is a unit of a logarithmic scale of power or intensity called the power level or intensity level. The decibel is defined as one tenth of a bel where one bel represents a difference in level between two intensities I1, I0 where one is ten times greater than the other.

So, the difference between 140 and 150 is tenfold, which is quite dramatic. I'll try the loads and see what happens. BTW most ear protectors I've seen decrease noise by 20-24db. I haven't tried the electronic ones, but maybe I should.

And what about black powder? It makes more of a "wump" than a "crack". Is that strictly due to the lower velocity, or does it have something to do with the burning characteristics? Does anyone here shoot black powder, 777 or pyrodex in a centerfire rifle? How does it compare with the same rifle using smokeless?
 
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Hearing protection

My nephew is REALLY sensitive to loud sounds and my sister tried out the hunting earmuffs on him (the fancy electronic ones) and they made a huge difference. He is four and thinks wearing them is 'cool' now.
I remember one of the supporting companies here selling ones as good as Peltors for super cheap but cant find the thread now....
For what its worth-- my dad took me hunting from the time I was tiny and its some of my best memories. Except when he would tell me to stop squirming....;) Good for you.
 
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