While reading reviews about Sig Sauer pistols, people compliment their quality while others criticize them as being "duty" pistols. How is a duty pistol compromised in terms of competition? A person's life may depend on a duty pistol so wouldn't a duty pistol incorporate all of the shooting advantages in a competition pistol plus more?
Competition vs. Duty Pistols
- Thread starter jerichoholic_ninja
- Start date
Sure it can.
There are so many different sports where you can use pistol.
Olympic shooting, PPC, IDPA, IPSC, Bulls Eye.....
IMO Sig Sauer duty pistols will fit well into IDPA or IPSC - Production Division.
I remember when, I have started shooting IPSC one of the best Production shooter was using Norinco P226 and he was winning.
the DAO trigger system of Duty type pistols is a hinderance,...however it is necessary for those LEO who only "just "qualify.
the lighter the trigger,.USUALLY the better performance if the user is proficient in using it......NOT just accuracy and safety. THe lighter the trigger can also mean that the user is more prone to AD/ND if they are not used to it.
the lighter the trigger,.USUALLY the better performance if the user is proficient in using it......NOT just accuracy and safety. THe lighter the trigger can also mean that the user is more prone to AD/ND if they are not used to it.
IPSC shooters aren't interested in a reliable duty pistol. They want a pistol that aids in eliminating as much human f*ck up as possible to achieve the best score possible. Hence the race guns. Determine what you want out of a shooting discipline and run the gear appropriate for the task.
TDC
There's no such thing as an "accidental discharge". Its called negligence, and its the cause of all unintentional discharges.
TDC
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- Halifax - NS
IPSC Production (and I or CDPA and every other gun sport) is target shooting. You can call it as close to duty or defensive or reality as you want, but in essence, you're target shooting. Hence the difference.
Duty guns put in close-up fixed sights, which are fine for the gun under stress at 5-7 feet, but useless in hitting a pepper popper at 15m on the run compared with a set of target sights. Target sights, on the other hand - are more susceptible to damage due to lots of parts.
Duty guns have heavy triggers to compensate for life-in jeopardy-adrenaline pumped motor skills that materialize when you least want them. Target pistols have fine triggers. Paper doesn't shoot back. Gun sports are never the same no matter what fantasy some might spin in the stage design and briefing.
Duty guns are designed with a lifetime round count of 20-30K rounds. Ask an average cop how many round he puts through his pistol and he'll ask you what the qualification round count was - and yes, I know some guns go longer but that is thier specs to meet. Competition guns are designed with a far greater life in mind. STI expects you'll shoot an Edge 20K round a year or more.
Competition guns get cleaned before and after competition. They travel in nice cases and live in nice safes, duty guns go in holsters, and sometimes stay in there for months, being dragged into every environment known to man, again only getting cleaned at qualification time. A Competitive shooter treats his gun carefully - he wants to shoot. An average cop considers it more weight on his belt, and generally a PITA - he'd rather not have to shoot it.
The closer you move "duty" people to intensive shooting, the more they ditch the traditional "duty" gun and go to something more competition oriented. There's a few special forces organizations that use the STI Tactical, a slight derivative of the EDGE. At thier level of proficiency, they properly maintain these tools and in a firefight, they don't tense up like the average cop. They're also less likely to get sued after a shooting. There is even a a SWAT team in Asia using IPSC race guns as entry weapons.
And finally, there's always the budget - competition shooters have a far bigger budget than a police force for firearms, so target shooters can simply afford better.
Duty guns put in close-up fixed sights, which are fine for the gun under stress at 5-7 feet, but useless in hitting a pepper popper at 15m on the run compared with a set of target sights. Target sights, on the other hand - are more susceptible to damage due to lots of parts.
Duty guns have heavy triggers to compensate for life-in jeopardy-adrenaline pumped motor skills that materialize when you least want them. Target pistols have fine triggers. Paper doesn't shoot back. Gun sports are never the same no matter what fantasy some might spin in the stage design and briefing.
Duty guns are designed with a lifetime round count of 20-30K rounds. Ask an average cop how many round he puts through his pistol and he'll ask you what the qualification round count was - and yes, I know some guns go longer but that is thier specs to meet. Competition guns are designed with a far greater life in mind. STI expects you'll shoot an Edge 20K round a year or more.
Competition guns get cleaned before and after competition. They travel in nice cases and live in nice safes, duty guns go in holsters, and sometimes stay in there for months, being dragged into every environment known to man, again only getting cleaned at qualification time. A Competitive shooter treats his gun carefully - he wants to shoot. An average cop considers it more weight on his belt, and generally a PITA - he'd rather not have to shoot it.
The closer you move "duty" people to intensive shooting, the more they ditch the traditional "duty" gun and go to something more competition oriented. There's a few special forces organizations that use the STI Tactical, a slight derivative of the EDGE. At thier level of proficiency, they properly maintain these tools and in a firefight, they don't tense up like the average cop. They're also less likely to get sued after a shooting. There is even a a SWAT team in Asia using IPSC race guns as entry weapons.
And finally, there's always the budget - competition shooters have a far bigger budget than a police force for firearms, so target shooters can simply afford better.
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If you refer to unintentional discharges as ND's then why refer to them as AD/ND?? Looks like you needed correcting.
TDC
jesus #### you take a couple of courses and suddenly you're an expert on everything.
AD is an industry standard accepted definition of a gun going off when it shouldn't. An ND is the same thing, where an obvious human error has caused it. Since you can't always prove an ND, AD is used to cover all the bases until it can be shown otherwise. Either way in IPSC you're responsible for both and will be dealt with accordingly.
You're also most certainly not an expert on IPSC nor what it's shooters are wanting or trying to achieve. IPSC shooters want reliable guns, that's number 1, far too many "duty" type guns will not even make it through a match. Secondly most want guns they can win with. you can't remove the human element from a shooting competition, no matter what you do to a gun, however you can remove crappy mechanical stuff that impedes a gun performing well, poor fitting, burs, etc. 99% of the guns currently used in Production Division would be quite suitable for carry purposes, and many are. 70% at least of those in Standard would also qualify as good choices for carry. Open? well yeah it's possible, but not likely, to see an Open gun being carried, at least not concealed. I do however know that in Open Carry states there are a few people that carry tricked out Open guns.
AD is an industry standard accepted definition of a gun going off when it shouldn't. An ND is the same thing, where an obvious human error has caused it. Since you can't always prove an ND, AD is used to cover all the bases until it can be shown otherwise. Either way in IPSC you're responsible for both and will be dealt with accordingly.
You're also most certainly not an expert on IPSC nor what it's shooters are wanting or trying to achieve. IPSC shooters want reliable guns, that's number 1, far too many "duty" type guns will not even make it through a match. Secondly most want guns they can win with. you can't remove the human element from a shooting competition, no matter what you do to a gun, however you can remove crappy mechanical stuff that impedes a gun performing well, poor fitting, burs, etc. 99% of the guns currently used in Production Division would be quite suitable for carry purposes, and many are. 70% at least of those in Standard would also qualify as good choices for carry. Open? well yeah it's possible, but not likely, to see an Open gun being carried, at least not concealed. I do however know that in Open Carry states there are a few people that carry tricked out Open guns.
woberfully put
Wonderfully put, I could not have said it better myself, I will add that I have long considered IPSC to be not practical for a very long time!
I might also add that I agree, no such thing as an AD, no matter what the IPSC God's have decided. Something caused the gun to fire so it is either an intentional discharge = ID or an negligent discharge = ND. I also have a theory about car accidents, care to hear that as well?
Scott
Scott
Wonderfully put, I could not have said it better myself, I will add that I have long considered IPSC to be not practical for a very long time!
I might also add that I agree, no such thing as an AD, no matter what the IPSC God's have decided. Something caused the gun to fire so it is either an intentional discharge = ID or an negligent discharge = ND. I also have a theory about car accidents, care to hear that as well?
Scott
Scott
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