Russian Captured Mauser

[Andy]

A captured weapon is not necessarily a battlefield pick-up? If you are an invading Army and capture a weapon from an individual soldier, Arms Depot or Factory it is still captured is it not?

Yes it is captured, but unless it's captured on a battlefield, it's not a battlefield pick-up.

A lot of emotion here on this subject, so I guess I risk some outbursts by responding and keeping this going, but I think it's worthwhile to learn about the history behind the "Russian Capture" (Soviet Capture really) Mausers. Sorry to say this, but not all RC's were seized from the hands of a German soldier who had several kills registered with the rifle - and there's no way to know.

My thoughts:

1. This is the "Milsurp" Forum, so shouldn't we expect that there would be opinions other than "great job" when someone alters a gun?

2. It's your property and no-one cares what you do with your property and yes it is your right. Some people like to advise against it, as it will almost always reduce its value. Most people appreciate the heads-up and often then look for an already altered (and cheaper) gun to modify the way they want;

3. You really can't restore an RC back to its original condition, unless you find the original bolt without electropencilling, the stock was not belt sanded and marked, the receiver was not peened, etc. It'll always be an RC; and

4. I agree that the RC's look much better with stripped and re-finished stocks, and missing cleaning rods installed. I might do it myself some day, but I'll do it with open eyes and won't try to pass it off as a Bring-back. They can be great shooters.

 

[skirsons]

Good summation Andy. I might add that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, while originality is objective (don't alter it and it stays original, assuming it came directly from the arsenal and no one modified it before you).

Some folks might think a black ATI stock looks much nicer on the rifle and a scope-mount drilled into the receiver is an improvement. Who are we to argue what "looks better"?

 

[Claven2]

So just WTF does all your #####ing about f**king bubba, RC history, Facts, name calling, and some of the stupid comments have to do with the FACT THAT CAPTAINS RC, LOOKS AWSOME!

For the record, I have not commented on the wisdom of removing the shellac or not. Only on the mechanisms by which K98k rifles became RC's.

I do think the rifle looks nice now though.

 

[Claven2]

A captured weapon is not necessarily a battlefield pick-up? If you are an invading Army and capture a weapon from an individual soldier, Arms Depot or Factory it is still captured is it not?

Yes and no

Not necessarily "captured" in the sense of being taken on the field of battle. Many were/are more properly thought of as "war reparations" or "spoils of war".

I certainly do not intend to imply the rifle is anything less than it is, only that not all RC's were pried from a pair of dead nazi hands as many people prefer to imply.

 

[K98ACTION]

Good summation Andy. I might add that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, while originality is objective (don't alter it and it stays original, assuming it came directly from the arsenal and no one modified it before you).

Some folks might think a black ATI stock looks much nicer on the rifle and a scope-mount drilled into the receiver is an improvement. Who are we to argue what "looks better"?

My point and I am sure others is too, that the Russians ALREADY ALTERED THE ORIGINAL RIFLE!!!

Re-read Clavens RC historical.. First they simply left them to rot for a few years, then decided to give them a half assed refurb. Took them all apart and messed them all up, put them back together and applyied the CHEAPEST finish possible, then stuffed them back into stinking caves....

So personally I think if anyone wants to blame anyone for altering a milsurp you had better first start by blaming some long dead Russian armourers and apparently Bubba's at that.

So now here we are in the day and for some of us an RC is the only affordable option to aquire a k98 mauser, wheather it's due to high prices or rarity of finding an original.

So joe gun nut buys an ugly RC, and is very happy to have one, as after all it still is an original WWII GERMAN MAUSER, which was already "Bubba'ed" so even if he presented here in that original RUSSIAN state, Some of you would still be critical because you would then point out the RC fact etc etc...

So what some of us are simply doing is presenting to you an RC which we have tried to UN-Bubba somewhat. And for the record IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO TRY TO PASS one of our creations off as an ORIGINAL BRING BACK!.. That comment served no purpose.

So again to CAPTAIN.. VERY VERY VERY NICE WORK, AND YOUR RC, WILL ALWAYS BE AN RC, YES.. BUT AS FOR LOSING ANY VALUE FOR WHAT YOU DID TO IT, NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS...

NO DIFFERENT THAN SOMEONE BRINGING A SPORTER LEE ENFIELD BACK TO FULL MILITARY..

So hows them apples, SKIRSONS...

 

[Andy]

WOW - POWERFUL ARGUMENT.

I'm Going To Take My Finn Capture Mosin And Grind Off The "Puolustuslaitos", "SA" And Other Finnish Marks And Restore It To Its Original Russian State Because The Finns Already Bubba'd It.

 

[longbranch*]

Rc

Greetings all: First of all, very nice rifle there CaptainW. Having acquired a couple RC Mauser's myself recently I have to say if you can find a good one, which is getting harder, they are a great deal. My first, a 42 BNZ in a "Banner" marked stock, un-molested Swastica's and without Russian X. Second was from a member, 1938 S/42 in a walnut Waa135, cupped stock, un-molested Swastica's and no X. Both have VG,slightly dark, frosted bores.
Did I removed what was left of the flaking shellac and black paint?...damn right! Plan to add capture-screws and cleaning-rods eventually.
As original, matching Mausers at affordable prices rarely come up, these RC's do satisfy my "lust" in the mean time. Will I keep these forever?, probably not as I will acquire others and eventually run out of room. In the meantime these two RC's stand proudly on the rack beside my other dozen or so matching Mausers.
Cheers brothers
Geoff in Victoria

 

[K98ACTION]

WOW - POWERFUL ARGUMENT.

I'm Going To Take My Finn Capture Mosin And Grind Off The "Puolustuslaitos", "SA" And Other Finnish Marks And Restore It To Its Original Russian State Because The Finns Already Bubba'd It.

Dear Andy,, AGAIN,, no one ground anything off of the RC's referred to in this thread. So your sarcasim indicates to me that you did not read all the prior threads that led to my rebuttal againist skirsons for referring to us as Bubba for simply taking the old crapy Russian applied finish off the RC wood.

If you want to take the grinder to your finn capture, go for it. My RC still bears all the Russian capture marks except for the cheap flaking finish and black nail polish (lol) that was put on it in some sort of bubba effort to preserve it. RESULT..

A RUSSIAN CAPTURED K98 RIFLE WHICH IS SHOW PIECE EVERYTIME I TAKE IT TO THE RANGE.

People just love it...

 

[Snuffy]

Hmmm

Very interesting reading.

Nice looking guns and it is nice to see they are in good homes. If you ever feel the urge to expand your collection but find you are short on space----my room is aways looking for more guests

Must say didnt expect to see this much bubba talk that is for sure.

 

[skirsons]

Dear Andy,, AGAIN,, no one ground anything off of the RC's referred to in this thread. So your sarcasim indicates to me that you did not read all the prior threads that led to my rebuttal againist skirsons for referring to us as Bubba for simply taking the old crapy Russian applied finish off the RC wood.

Blaming the "Russians" for altering K98's is like blaming the Germans for altering raw ore and wood into K98 rifles in the first place - all you have is a crappy bubba'd tree and pile of bubba'd ore. The Soviet alterations, being done by the government, are officially part of its history and altering that "back to" the rifle's "original" condition isn't going to erase history. These rifles were not "already bubba'd," it was more like they were manufactured using surplus parts and you, bubba, are altering them from manufactured condition.

 

[Claven2]

GROAN... the direction this thread is going is precisely why I usually don't comment on this frequent topic...

Where's that rolling eyes icon again???

 

[Coyote Ugly]

I find this the best way to clean up a RC, and it's handy to do right after the dinner BBQ:

 

[Sigismund]

Blaming the "Russians" for altering K98's is like blaming the Germans for altering raw ore and wood into K98 rifles in the first place - all you have is a crappy bubba'd tree and pile of bubba'd ore.

Classic!!!

How dare you bubba my ore!!!

 

[K98ACTION]

I find this the best way to clean up a RC, and it's handy to do right after the dinner BBQ:

LOL! I was wondering when you would jump in ugg... Couldn't resist to pop that pic of the barbie with the RC stock on it again eh!

Yep Skirisons, how about this your right and I am wrong.. Hey Rifle chair want to buy my bubba'ed RC?? She's a hottie..

 

[K98ACTION]

Oh and skirisons what would you classify Coyote Ugly's RC alteration on the barbicue?

He surely devalued a piece of Milsurp history No?

 

[skirsons]

Oh and skirisons what would you classify Coyote Ugly's RC alteration on the barbicue?

He surely devalued a piece of Milsurp history No?

I'm pretty sure fire increases the collector value. It was probably originally set on fire by the Soviets anyway - all those cold winters.

 

[Coyote Ugly]

I call it "The Scorched Earth Policy K98" LOL

 

[contact148]

come on they are ALL captured mine came from a russian who took it off a dead ss man in front of hitlers bunker..........

 

[skirsons]

The Russians pried them out of the dead soldiers' hands. They said, and I quote: "All your K98 are belong to us."

 

[ollie]

No matter how "bad" some people may think it looks, I'll never "fix" my RC K98. We'll see which ones are worth more and more desirable in a few years.

Much like Lee Enfields, I think it will be the ones that are totally un-bubbared, followed by ones that have been legitimately FTR'ed(an RC or other legitimate military refurb would fall in this category), and finally, guns that have been pieced together, or restored, or fixed up, or whatever you want to call the bastardization of a legitimate piece. While a refinished K98 may look better, an unmolested example will always be more valuable to serious collectors. Different strokes for different folks.

Mine will always be worth more, too, because it's the gun that killed hitler