Need some feedback on my groupings (HVA1640 & Bushnell 4200Elite 3-9x40)

[maw]

Hi all,

I am new to the sport of hunting and shooting (just shooting so far) and I am looking to get some feedback on the groups I am shooting.

I am a young adult who has had some experience with rifles in the past but as I grew up in the city I was never around them "that much" and thus, never properly trained. My experience and knowledge so far has been acquired by internet research and 'just going out and shooting'. This is my first rifle and I plan to go out this Thanksgiving for my first hunting trip. I will probably get one more session in at the range before then. So any feedback I get before this Saturday will be greatly appreciated!!

My gear:
- .30-06 Husqvarna 1640 w/ bedded action
- Bushnell 4200 Elite 3-9x40
- Leupold ring mounts (54150)
- Weaver 46 and 55 bases
- 180gr Federal, Winchester and Remington factory ammo. All the cheap stuff.

My groupings at 50m and 100m (my scope was not 'sighted' yet) and during these groupings of 3 shots each I was making some small changes to the scope.

Grouping "5" at 100m was the final shots I took and did not modify the scope after this point. I took quite a few more shots but seem to have misplaced two of my target papers... anyways here is what I have.

I was pretty happy with "group 2" in the 3rd image from the top. I don't think I did anything different when I made those shots, but obviously I did something right. Also, the last image at 200m seems pretty acceptable but I still think the left-right can be controlled more. I was aiming at the large black X at the top center.

What I am really concerned of is shots like group 3, image3 and image 4. Specifically image 4. I have no idea what happened there. I am looking to get consistent 1-2MOA accuracy at 100m. I know it can be done and I feel that if I am able to identify my weaknesses I can achieve consistent 1-2MOA. Some things I know I am doing and wonder if anyone has some tips to overcome this:

Issue: I am not 100% comfortable shooting .30-06 and 180gr yet... the recoil still kicks a lot!
Solution: The rifle doesn't have a recoil pad. It is hard plastic and does nothing to weaken/absorb the recoil!! I have got a quote to get a limbsaver fitted. Are there any other brands I should consider?

Issue: Being mentally prepared to pull the trigger. Similar to my first point but this is the mental aspect of just being more comfortable shooting.
Solution: I am decent size, 6'0 and 190lbs so I don't think the gun is "too big" for me. I look at this issue as "I just need to put the purse away". I don't know what feedback can be expected here... but I do feel some anxiety before every trigger pull. But... I think a recoil pad could help here as well. Also, I assume the more I shoot (in smaller quantity each session) would help me.

Issue: Holding steady on a bench rest with sand bags.
Solution: Breathing, where to grip the stock, how tight to hold to shoulder?

Well that is it for now... I will compare my next range session to this one to see if I make any improvements. If results are similar would it be wise to start thinking the problem could be the rifle?

 

[todbartell]

get a recoil pad, and keep shooting. dont shoot so much that you get mentally/physically tired of it, that will lead to sloppy habits and bad accuracy. Also try to stick with one ammo type that shoots decent rather than trying to shoot a few different ones at the same session. Also dont overheat the barrel, take it slow and let it cool right to cold between 3 shot groups

good luck

 

[Nechako]

Do you think you are flinching at the anticipation of the shot? If you are, give this a try.

Look through the scope and let the crosshair go slightly fuzzy and focus on the target and only the target.

If the trigger on the rifle has lots of creep, try not to concentrate on the trigger or think about when the gun is going to fire. Think only about the target.

If your mind is focused on the target and not the rifle you will not be able to anticipate the shot.

I used this to help with my target archery and I found it really worked.

Richard

 

[maw]

todbartell, good tip about the barrel. It is usually quite hot as I was only waiting 3-5mins before taking the next 3 shots. I guess when I go hunting and am only shooting "one shot" the barrel will be cold

Nechako, when I first started to shoot I was definitely flinching. I think for the most part this is under control but it could still be affecting me. I will try your "zen on the target" tactic. Thanks!

 

[cosmic]

Well - Starting out with a fairly light 30-06 with no recoil pad can cause issues. I'm the same size as you, shoot a fair amount, and avoid 30-06 like the plague. If I shoot a stiff calibre, I notice my groups open up, even when I go back to my preferred calibres (6.5X55, 303 with light handloads).
FWIW - Let someone who is an accomplished shot shoot the rifle - you'll know right away without wasting a lot of ammo, and they can give you some pointers. This avenue is much more beneficial than "internet research"...

 

[manbearpig]

IMO shoot a couple bricks of ammo out of a .22 before you even start with the .30-06. work on your technique with the .22 and when you have that down start trying groups with the .30-06.
by eliminating recoil/possible flinch as a factor youll be better able to focus on your technique. itll also be a lot cheaper to practice with than spraying .30-06 downrange.

the good thing about a .22 is you dont have to be at a range to practice. CBs are dead quiet and you can shoot them almost anywhere, just make sure youre doing it safely. target subsonics are also not that loud from a distance.

i know its kindof late because you are already planning on going out on Thanksgiving and will only have one range day before then, but consider getting more practice in.
depending on where you live, you could pick up an inexpensive .22 (or borrow one, just dont borrow a POS where you wont know if poor groups are your fault or the rifles) and practice with a brick or two of ammo before Thanksgiving.

 

[Danny Boy]

IMO shoot a couple bricks of ammo out of a .22 before you even start with the .30-06. work on your technique with the .22 and when you have that down start trying groups with the .30-06.
by eliminating recoil/possible flinch as a factor youll be better able to focus on your technique. itll also be a lot cheaper to practice with than spraying .30-06 downrange.

the good thing about a .22 is you dont have to be at a range to practice. CBs are dead quiet and you can shoot them almost anywhere, just make sure youre doing it safely. target subsonics are also not that loud from a distance.

i know its kindof late because you are already planning on going out on Thanksgiving and will only have one range day before then, but consider getting more practice in.
depending on where you live, you could pick up an inexpensive .22 (or borrow one, just dont borrow a POS where you wont know if poor groups are your fault or the rifles) and practice with a brick or two of ammo before Thanksgiving.

2X

Also separate the equipment (recoil pad, bullet weight, brands of different ammo...) from your techniques (breathing, heart beat, trigger pull consistency…).

We all want to improve our results over night. However, making too many changes at the same time will confuse you as a new shooter. That is why using a 22 to develop your basic skills is a good way to start.

Have fun and enjoy!

 

[604shooter]

Take the great advice you've been given and practice with a 22. That anxiety you feel before you pull the trigger will or already has caused you to flinch.

 

[Tomochan]

The advice you already have is good ( as expected on this board ) especially re the using of a .22 for practice. I recommend a recoil pad and also agree that asking an experienced shooter to test fire the rifle helps.

I am in Vancouver and shoot at both PoCo and Mission so PM me if you want some help down the road - I can also let you try some other calibres to get you started on the addiction!

 

[manbearpig]

btw i forgot to say earlier: if those are your groups off a bench, you are not ready to go hunting yet. most shots on game arent made from a bench off sandbags.
i doubt the 'average Joe hunter' is a marksman... but you should really spend the time and work on your accuracy a bit.
youll enjoy your hunt a lot more it doesnt involve a wounded, unrecoverable animal or your first field-dressing experience being on a gutshot deer.

 

[Scott_N]

I find that these help a lot when I am shooting from a bench:

http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.com/past/

 

[H4831]

Congratulations for putting your targets on here and telling your story. Looks like most of us are agreed the trouble is not related to equipment or components.
No one was born a good shooter, they all had to lean. Starting out shooting with a light 30-06 and no recoil pad is a very bad mistake. As has been stated, you should start out with a 22.
You should have an experienced shooter to help you, yes, help you in becoming an accomplished shot with a 22. This helper should be there to help you, and not to prove to you what a good shot he is.
Some one always says to go out and practice, practice, practice. The point is, there is no use in practing bad habits and the more you practice, the worse your bad habits can become.
If you don't have a teacher, the very least you need is a good book, with a title like, "The Elements of Basic Rifle Shooting," or something similar. The top competitive target shooters all have a variety of books on rifle shooting.
And by the way, I will bet that not one of those books will tell you to shoot off of solid rests, while you are learning to shoot.

 

[GSoD]

Due to the short time frame I would recommend getting some snap caps, finding a small dot on a wall and dry firing to cure your flinch.

Just remember that every minute movement you make at the gun, amplifies down range and opens groups. Concentrate on taking yourself out of the equation.

 

[stanway]

Listen to the good advice given already - it will improve your groups for sure.

By the way, if you are hunting and have a buck in the cross hairs, the last thing you will notice is the recoil. You will barely hear the gun go off. Just be sure of the point of impact on that first 'cold' shot.

Where are you headed on the Thanksgiving weekend?


James

 

[maw]

Thanks for all of the feedback. I cannot address all of the points but will comment on a few.

"Get a .22 and shoot off a few bricks of rounds."

I have an old Cooey style .22 with tubular magazine and have gotten some good use out of it with iron sights. There is no comparison to shooting a .22 and .30-06 in terms of recoil. I can put 5 shots pretty much through the same hole (at 25 yards) with the cooey.

I am looking for a better target .22 for the future but am holding off as I need to buy a few other things first. However, I have had an opportunity to use my friends Savage MKII .22 with a 6-15x40m Bushnell scope. At 100m my groups are 1MOA in prone, sitting and kneeling positions. Shooting a .22 is a lot easier due to the weight, noise and recoil is so much less.

...Recoil Pad...

Yep, going to get one. Probably settle for a slip-on for this weekend but will look into something more permanent for the long term.

let the barrel cool down to 'cold' before the next 3shots

I agree that I have been probably rushing the next 3 rounds. I see two issues arising from this.

1) The barrel stays quite warm/hot between each new group
2) Not resting does nothing to help anxiety! Also, by the end of the night the shoulder starts to get a little sore.

I believe both of these points are easy to resolve and I will keep them in mind going forward.

Get someone to instruct you.

I will inquire at the range if they offer any formal instruction or if they can direct me to someone who can assist. Paying someone to help me for a few hours will most likely be money well spent.

Further to this, I would be interested to see an experienced rifleman shoot a group with my rifle so I can compare the difference.

...cleaning...

I got a few PMs on this topic. I have cleaned my rifle after every range session and it looks like a mirror inside. The rifling is also very nice. I think the rifle is quite clean but will inquire at my gunshop about alternate products that may achieve better cleaning results.

Where are you going hunting and who is it with?

Heading to Princeton/Coalmont/Tulameen area for Deer or Elk, whatever we happen to find. I will be going with a family friend with 30+ years of shooting and hunting experience. Unfortunately I haven't been able to steal him for any range sessions yet.

 

[Ganderite]

Lots of good advice above. When I shoot a rifle with a lot of recoil off a bench, I either slip on my wife's PAAST (sp?) sissy pad or at least fold a towel or something inside my shirt to take the recoil. There is nothing wrong with using a slip on pad for zero practice and hunting with a bare rifle. In fact, it is good, because your eye tends to be farther away from the scope when standing (hunting) then it is when sitting or prone.

Also, noise can aggrevate flinching. It is a good idea to wear both ear plugs and ear muffs. Ear plugs alone are better than nothing, but since sound is conducted well through bone, ear damage can occur with just ear plugs.

Shooting that rifle off a bench without more recoil protection is just begging for a flinch. Then you are screwed.

Before you go out next time, here are some things to do/check:

The scope base screws are under the rings, so cannot be checked for tightness. Take the scope off and Loc Tite the bases screws in place, so you never have to check, tighten or worry about them again.

Take the rifle out of the stock (2 big screws under the action, and make sure the bedding is dry. It tends to pick up oil and solvent. Unless it is dry, the rifle will not group. When you put it back together, don't get carried away over-torquing the action screws.

When you go back to the range, fire 1 fouling shot and three for group, and adjust the scope from those 3. Your group marked "last group" looks good, but that was with a hot barrel. You may need a small adjustment for the cold barrel shots.

It is not unusual for a rifle to do better with one brand of ammo than another, or to favour one bullet shape/weight of the same brand. If it grouped best with the brand X 180gr pointed, then stick with it. Don't argue with success.

Dry fire. You won't hurt your rifle by dry firing it. I have a deer target hanging on the far wall of my workshop and I dryfire at it from time to time. I don't do this because I really need more shooting practice, but because I need a lot of practice in remembering to turn off the damn safety. I turn the safety on, then raise the rifle, switch it off then fire. I am trying to make turning off the safety an automatic habit before pulling the trigger.

 

[maw]

GANDERITE, thank you - some good tips.

I own a few snap caps but to be honest don't practice with them much. I will put some more effort into dry firing and handling the rifle.

 

[rem338win]

Congratulations on the choice of a wonderful addiction..I mean hobby

First things first, as mentioned, the .22 is a wonderful tool for practice. Use it lots. Next, you picked a wonderful rifle, and a grand cartridge. This set-up is not recoil friendly, but is easily controlled with a good pad, and proper form. The limb-saver or decelerator are great. I have also heard good things about Kick-EZE.
How is your trigger? Is it crisp, or creepy? Is it one or two stage? how heavy is it, and does it surprise you? These are very important. A 2-4lbs crisp trigger is a need for accurate shooting.