Developing a load?

[Jager]

What do you experienced guys do when developing a load? Do you start at the minimums and then go up by 1 grain increments until things start to "come together" then go back to the loading bench and fine tune by .5 grain increments or do you start somewhere in the mid range load data and go up/down by .5 grains?

Or????

 

[sunray]

Do this.
Beginning with the starting load given in your manual, load 5 rounds only(or mag capacity). Go up by half a grain of powder, loading 5 of each keeping them separate until you get to the max load in your manual.
Then go shooting. Shoot at 100 yards(assuming it's for a rifle), for group only, slowly and deliberately off a bench.
Change targets between strings of 5 and allow time for the barrel to cool.
When you find the best group, sight in. Usually not dead on at 100. Ballistics charts will give you a rough idea of how high to sight in at 100 for a given cartridge and bullet weight to be able to shoot with no holdover past 100. IE. A 150 grain .30-06 fmj, sighted in 4" high at 100 will be on target out to about 250 and about 6" low at 300.

 

[blargon]

Do this.
Beginning with the starting load given in your manual, load 5 rounds only(or mag capacity). Go up by half a grain of powder, loading 5 of each keeping them separate until you get to the max load in your manual.

5 of each is a waste of powder and bullets.

I load one round of each grain, up to max book load, usually 5 in total (per powder, if trying more than one type.)

Shoot them from low to high, until you get to max or you get the velocity you are looking for. (over a chrony) When you get to that point, then load some more at that level and shoot for groups. Adjusting seating depth may be required to fine tune.

You should be able to develop a load, and shoot a few groups with that load, using a total of 18-20 bullets. After that, its just practice...

 

[Eagleye]

I load five of each weight from minimum to max, and seldom shoot all 5 of each. I will work up as Blargon stated, watching for pressure signs. [usually a progressive thing, you can see the signs come together as your load gets hotter] When my chronograph says I am about where I want to be, without excess pressure, then I shoot a 3-shot group of that load. If the group is promising, I will load some more of that charge weight, with seating depth varying .010" each way [if my magazine allows a longer length] to see if that will tighten the groups some more. If the group is lousy, I will change powders, and repeat the process until I find the combination that does what I want. Sometimes that "magic" load shows up early, sometimes it takes a bit more work [see my post on this forum regarding my 308 Norma Mag] Regards, Eagleye.

 

[sunray]

One round tells you absolutely nothing about how a load will group out of your rifle. Testing multiple powders at once isn't a good idea either.

 

[Icon]

I don't have a chrony, so I basically load for groupings. I will load at the or just above the min load suggested and go up by .5 grains to the max. For each grain amount, I load 3 rounds and check for pressure signs on the cartridges. I find this will provide enough of an idea of groupings to at least get you excited with one or two. Make sure that you let the barrel cool between shots. I will clean the barrel between each amount too, which brings up something. Clean and dirty barrels act different. I like to fire one shot from the minimum load batch to dirty the barrel then shoot the next loads. Once those loads are done, I clean the barrel and shoot another minimum load to dirty the barrel and then move on to the next load. I haven't found a good grouping with minimums yet, I usually find them near the max load.

If I find something that looks promising, then I will go +/- .2 from that load and make 5 of each. 5 will definately let you know if you have something good.

Then I sight in at 100, 200, and if possible 300 yds to see what bullet drop I have.

 

[blargon]

One round tells you absolutely nothing about how a load will group out of your rifle. Testing multiple powders at once isn't a good idea either.

Who wants to shoot groups of minimum charges? Complete waste of time.

Its a starting point, and thats it. Highly unlikely that anyone would hunt or target shoot with a minimum load, so who cares how it groups in your rifle?

If a guy was loading for a .300WM, and his 180gr partition loads shot 3 into one hole at the minimum charge, giving 2700 fps, what the hell good does that do? Might as well get a .308.

 

[Overland]

Blargon has the right of it.

 

[Glock4ever]

Blargon is describing a modified ladder technique. More information regarding this technique at this link: http://www.washtenawsportsmansclub.org/groups/cba/downloads/incredload.pdf
It works alright - but it is easy to misread signs/switch powders prematurely so it is not my favorite way to find a load. I usually will load 3 rds of .5 gn increments and shoot for groups. Usually I will find that if a rifle won't group 3 shots adding 2 more won't make a difference but the 3 shot groups will give you enough information to decide on what powder charge is optimal and what other changes you can consider. So for example on a .308 Win - I choose 1 case, 1 primer, 1 bullet and 1 powder. I will spend hours deciding on the bullet/powder combo because it is the crucial factor (exterior ballistic/terminal ballistic performance) Once I go out to the range and shoot for groups I will find a load based on the method of above that is closest to .5 MOA in results; frequently I will get 2-3 groups that fall within that parameter (usually within 1 gn of each other). From that point I use that range spectrum to start again but in .2 gn changes.
Example: I start with 42.0 gn Varget and .5 load increase until 46.0 gn. I will shoot for 3 rd groups. Between 45.0 to 46.0 gns are 3 loads that group under .5 MOA. I start again with 45.0 to 46.0 gn in .2 gn load increase and shoot for groups. Find another 2-3 loads that shoot really well. I will load those three loads with 5 rounds and shoot a larger group to confirm performance. Sometimes at the second round of testing I will cheat and load 5 rounds and confirm then if my results are indicating only one load that is really good.

I know some guys are going to say what if powder/bullet x doesn't work. I find that factory barrels can be finicky but for the most part all barrels can shoot pretty much most/if not all powder/bullet combos well. In my experience the only times loads were total garbage (couldn't get it to group under 2" at 100 yds) was when the chamber was improperly cut (1 ruger I had this problem) and when mixed brass was used in the reloads (a fellow reloader I met at the range was wondering why he couldn't get his rifle to group well). I am not a BR shooter so I am not milking every bit of accuracy so I am content if it is a consistent sub MOA reload.

 

[blargon]

I'm not saying that we shouldn't shoot 3 per grain for groups, just that I don't see any point to shooting groups with minimum charges. Shoot 1 of each till you get to the higher end of book max, then shoot for groups.

Personally, I don't care if my rifle shoots one hole groups at minimum, or low end charges, cause I have no intention of using minimum loads for hunting.

 

[maynard]

I'm not saying that we shouldn't shoot 3 per grain for groups, just that I don't see any point to shooting groups with minimum charges. Shoot 1 of each till you get to the higher end of book max, then shoot for groups.

Personally, I don't care if my rifle shoots one hole groups at minimum, or low end charges, cause I have no intention of using minimum loads for hunting.

And on the other hand I don't really care how fast the bullets are as long as they group well. A moose or deer within a reasonable hunting distance won't die any quicker if the bullet it going 2900 fps or 2965 fps. Speed does not equal accuracy. You also don't need a sub moa rifle or load in most hunting situations.
When developing loads for my target rifles that I shoot out to 1000 yards it is always accuracy over speed. I shot a load for 4 years and had no idea how fast it was and didn't care either, it shot less than moa elevation at 1000 yards.

As the OP does not say what type of rifle or type of bullet (target-hunting) he will be using it is irresponsible to tell him to start at or near the maximum load for any caliber/gun. Some rifles may show pressure signs with a minimum load.

Went I develope loas for a hunting rifle I alway load to mag length. If I am developing loads for my target rifles I always start off with the bullets touching the lands. This way I will always be near the max pressure that load will produce. While touching the lands may show a bit of pressure, .005"-.010" off the lands may or may not.

 

[blargon]

As the OP does not say what type of rifle or type of bullet (target-hunting) he will be using it is irresponsible to tell him to start at or near the maximum load for any caliber/gun. Some rifles may show pressure signs with a minimum load.

All valid points, but I never said start near max loads, just not to waste time and bullets shooting minimum load groups. Target and hunting are two different facets of handloading for sure, and the OP hasn't said what the intended purpose is.

My main point is if the OP is loading for a 7mmREM or a .300WM, why bother with min loads, even if they do shoot well? Load the cartridge for what it was intended, higher velocity.

If I'm shooting 180's at 2700, I'll do it in my .308 or '06, using 40% less powder, and using brass that is 40% cheaper.

Same as using an '06 at min loads, might as well use a .300 savage, .308 or a 30-30.

 

[sunray]

"...Speed does not equal accuracy..." Exactly. Reloading is for finding the most accurate load with a given bullet weight for your rifle. That load may be closer to minium.
In any case, one shot with a particular powder charge tells you nothing about accuracy or the velocities you'll get from shot to shot with that load. Each shot will have a different velocity. If you can get a standard deviation of less than 50 fps, you're doing well. You won't know what it is with only one shot.
"...shooting 180's at 2700..." We'll assume that's just a 'for instance'. 180 grain bullets out of a .308 don't hit 2700fps. And it's a max load out of a .30-06. Using Hodgdon's array of powders.

 

[blargon]

"...Speed does not equal accuracy..." Exactly. Reloading is for finding the most accurate load with a given bullet weight for your rifle. That load may be closer to minium.
In any case, one shot with a particular powder charge tells you nothing about accuracy or the velocities you'll get from shot to shot with that load. Each shot will have a different velocity. If you can get a standard deviation of less than 50 fps, you're doing well. You won't know what it is with only one shot.
"...shooting 180's at 2700..." We'll assume that's just a 'for instance'. 180 grain bullets out of a .308 don't hit 2700fps. And it's a max load out of a .30-06. Using Hodgdon's array of powders.

Slow does not equal accuracy either.

BTW, the 180 gr will do 2800 fps in a .30-06, with Hodgdon's array of powders, and that's their data.

The 180 will do 2700 in a .308, also Hodgdon's data, and easily attainable in a 24" barrel.

Course, you already knew that right.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

 

[Eagleye]

All valid points, but I never said start near max loads, just not to waste time and bullets shooting minimum load groups. Target and hunting are two different facets of handloading for sure, and the OP hasn't said what the intended purpose is.

My main point is if the OP is loading for a 7mmREM or a .300WM, why bother with min loads, even if they do shoot well? Load the cartridge for what it was intended, higher velocity.

If I'm shooting 180's at 2700, I'll do it in my .308 or '06, using 40% less powder, and using brass that is 40% cheaper.

Same as using an '06 at min loads, might as well use a .300 savage, .308 or a 30-30.

I'm with Blargon on this one!! If I am developing loads in a 30 cal Magnum, I will not be bothering to test groups that are at minimum. You can argue all you like that an accurate slow load is better than an inaccurate fast load, but the fact is, an accurate fast load is superior to either, and that is what we are looking for. If I want an accurate "slower" load, I will step down to a case with less capacity and shoot it. Now if you only have one rifle, then a compromise might suit you, but personally, I am not going to shoot a Magnum at non-magnum velocities just so I can say I have a magnum in my hands. Regards, Eagleye

 

[zedex]

Do this.
Beginning with the starting load given in your manual, load 5 rounds only(or mag capacity). Go up by half a grain of powder, loading 5 of each keeping them separate until you get to the max load in your manual.
Then go shooting. Shoot at 100 yards(assuming it's for a rifle), for group only, slowly and deliberately off a bench.
Change targets between strings of 5 and allow time for the barrel to cool.
When you find the best group, sight in. Usually not dead on at 100. Ballistics charts will give you a rough idea of how high to sight in at 100 for a given cartridge and bullet weight to be able to shoot with no holdover past 100. IE. A 150 grain .30-06 fmj, sighted in 4" high at 100 will be on target out to about 250 and about 6" low at 300.

This is exactly what i would do. After you have your load the gun likes you can fine tune things with bullet length etc.

 

[oldbadger]

I may not have as much experience reloading as some others, but I use a slightly different approach; I agree with Maynard about max OAL, the ideal I go for is the full calibre portion of the ogive about 5 thou back from the start of the lands. This means that I prefer realtively short throats in my rifles. I them go through the powders that I have available and find one that will give me the desired velocity with about a 90% full case. My intent is to have minimum free volume with the bullet seated. Generally this will give a load with the lowest spread in velocities between min and max.

As far as magnums go, I have some that I shoot for fun, but for serious work they simply are not required. I have done the majority of my recent hunting (lat 20 years or so) with rifles in the 308 win class. The animals I have shot at have all died with minimal fuss; why would I shoot some bigger, noisier rifle (True confession, I may move up to a 30-06 if I get out this year as I have a real nice BSA Featherweight that I really like; even though it is excessive).

I cant see why anyone would use a heavier recoiling rifle than is necessary; don't get me wrong, I own, and shoot a 450 Ackley, but that 's just for fun, for serious stuff I'll stay with the accurate stuff.

 

[zedex]

I'm with Blargon on this one!! If I am developing loads in a 30 cal Magnum, I will not be bothering to test groups that are at minimum. You can argue all you like that an accurate slow load is better than an inaccurate fast load, but the fact is, an accurate fast load is superior to either, and that is what we are looking for. If I want an accurate "slower" load, I will step down to a case with less capacity and shoot it. Now if you only have one rifle, then a compromise might suit you, but personally, I am not going to shoot a Magnum at non-magnum velocities just so I can say I have a magnum in my hands. Regards, Eagleye

Instead. You can say you have a magnum in your hands but dont ask me to hit anything with it because after all a fast load is better than an accurate one.

 

[Eagleye]

Instead. You can say you have a magnum in your hands but dont ask me to hit anything with it because after all a fast load is better than an accurate one.

You know that I did not say a fast load is better than an accurate one!!
I hunt and shoot a lot of non-magnums, and kinda enjoy chamberings like the 300 Savage, the 6.5x55, the 7-08 and the 8x57, none of which are magnums. However, the accuracy criteria remains the same. Good groups or no go hunting! Regards, Eagleye.

 

[RobSmith]

I wonder if it would be possible to theoretically calculate the best velocity for a given caliber/barrel beforehand ? Seems to me it would save a lot of work ....