Can't decide ACOG or Aimpoint for your AR? [Image Heavy]

Big_Red said:
Your Aimpoint is good out to several hundred meters. Its a 2MOA or 4MOA dot, so unless your brightness is turned too far up, you should be able to see your target. Apply the principles of marksmanship and you will have no problem hitting things with it.

IDing the target at that range is another matter altogether and where the Short Dot comes into it's own...
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I have the 4MOA dot. The brightness is always set to an appropriate level. (usually ,2nd or 3rd from the top.) When I say it is good to 100 yards, I can shoot further, but on the targets I use, the 4MOA dot 8 inches (the whole target) at 200 yards and at 300 yards, 4MOA becomes 16 inches.

At 100 yards I can always get "head shots". (My personal standard)
At 200 yards I can always get on paper. (tolerable but just barely)
At 300 yards I can always shoot bullets. :D (unacceptable)

Of course for CQC nothing has faster acquisition than a 4MOA red dot. That is why they are the kings of Iraq Urban warfare. But 200 yards + it is not a good choice. I was tempted to get the 3X magnifier, but the ####ing things costs as much as the aimpoint. RIPOFF! :(
 
3 gun gamers in the US seem to be using these offset dots a lot, so there must be some advantage. Maybe a cheap fixed 4x scope with the dot for close up. One could probably get set up this way for a fraction of the short-dot or IOR price.

The falcon is an affordable options but having 2 fixed scopes means no fiddling with adjustments.
 
For rapid transition from 'way out there' to 'in your face' targets, nothing is faster than the offset mini-red dot, combined with the 4x fixed optic (ACOG).
Not withstanding what KevinB has noted for combat situations, this is indeed the hot setup for range 'games', 3 gun matches, etc.
The time it takes to simply cant the rifle, acquire the 'dot' and put the shot on target can't be beat by either dialing down (or up) the magnification or flipping the magnifier in or out of position for any of the other set ups.
 
drvrage said:
I have the 4MOA dot. The brightness is always set to an appropriate level. (usually ,2nd or 3rd from the top.) When I say it is good to 100 yards, I can shoot further, but on the targets I use, the 4MOA dot 8 inches (the whole target) at 200 yards and at 300 yards, 4MOA becomes 16 inches.

At 100 yards I can always get "head shots". (My personal standard)
At 200 yards I can always get on paper. (tolerable but just barely)
At 300 yards I can always shoot bullets. :D (unacceptable)

Of course for CQC nothing has faster acquisition than a 4MOA red dot. That is why they are the kings of Iraq Urban warfare. But 200 yards + it is not a good choice. I was tempted to get the 3X magnifier, but the f**king things costs as much as the aimpoint. RIPOFF! :(
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BigRed is talking about real usage...

Foxbat is right -- however most courses of fire - dont consider descrinmination and detection of the enemy despite what you think being shot at is not easy to determin direction or distance.

Shooting a "no shoot" in the real world has significant ramifications - both for you, and the rest of the good guys.
 
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After a lot of research I went for the top-of-the-line Aimpoint M4 for $780. Now I'm all set for close quarter battle; trouble is I don't have anyone to do battle with... yet.

On reflection, I think that a magnified scope would have been a better idea as my AR-15 should be good to at least 3-400 meters, but the only way to get that is through a magnified scope. Especially when my expectations are to get around 1 MOA.

I can now go for the Aimpoint 3x Magnifier. But I'll probably have to spend another $800 or so to get the 3x along with the swivel stand.

Or I can go with a Leupold CQ/T which has a upto 3x magnification. But it has a horrendously imprecise MOA.

Maybe the best way is to have an Aimpoint AND a small 5x regular scope, in which case the swivel stand will work well.
 
K-2 said:
After a lot of research I went for the top-of-the-line Aimpoint M4 for $780. Now I'm all set for close quarter battle; trouble is I don't have anyone to do battle with... yet.

On reflection, I think that a magnified scope would have been a better idea as my AR-15 should be good to at least 3-400 meters, but the only way to get that is through a magnified scope. Especially when my expectations are to get around 1 MOA.

I can now go for the Aimpoint 3x Magnifier. But I'll probably have to spend another $800 or so to get the 3x along with the swivel stand.

Or I can go with a Leupold CQ/T which has a upto 3x magnification. But it has a horrendously imprecise MOA.

Maybe the best way is to have an Aimpoint AND a small 5x regular scope, in which case the swivel stand will work well.
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I have an IOR CQB 1-4x scope, its a frugal version of the Short Dot, I can see what people above are saying about faster than the magnification twist..but damn that really starts to add on alot of weight fast.
 
koldt said:
I don't notice the weight, just the performance. But that's me.:p
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lol mine with the MRP and all the stuff on it weighs enough as it is...the IOR is very 'robust" in a late 70s sort of Soviet like build to it:p
 
With everything but a new pair of shoes bolted on to the M4, I have no idea where the point of impact ends up being. When all the crap is hanging off, it's not really precision time anyway, more for showing the bling.

Saying that though, I do like the image I get with that 65 MOA circle and dot. It's good to use for range estimation as well. Shoulder to toes, puts the average guy at 100 yds, bottom of circle to dot, 200 yds, etc etc.
 
greentips said:
I like NF 1-4 as well. I think shotdot is way too expensive for what it is.
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Agreed....
I have had, and let go, a ShortDot.......
I could afford it...but didn't find that it 'earned it's keep'...
If I had KevinB's experience...I may well have kept the S&B, but for my usage, the NF 'hauls the mail'.....
I also have a soft spot for the ACOG TA31F, Aimpoint M3, Eotech, etc.......
 
NF 1-4 is a great optic in is MIL sale version - the civy one with no zero stop and worthless day visibility is a PITA.


The end of the day for a civilian user - use what you want -- for a duty optic, you rung what you brung, so two or more optics is not a practical option...


anyone expecting MOA in a combat shooting situation with a carbine is deluding themselves
 
I haven't had much of a problem with my J-Point on top of my ACOG regarding cheek welds or quick target acquisition and decent shot placement when shooting rapid double taps. At first it was odd but with practice has gotten easier. Even shooting in the standing at a range of 50m I can get center mass hits quite easily. Regardless, I still haven't tried this while being under fire of course. :eek:
 
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