mudgunner49
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Yup, and I'll be nowhere near the intended target.....
That's exactly what we want you to think
You can run but you'll just die tired...
Do the Canadian Forces need a new pistol
- Thread starter x westie
- Start date
That's exactly what we want you to think
You can run but you'll just die tired...
More important than a new pistol is the push to improve pistol training, a well trained soldier with a Inglis HP is more deady than a novice with a "uber pistol". The military will have to replace it sooner than later, luckily the market is full of some very good choices, in the end weight, reliabilty and cost will be the deciding factors.
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- Location
- Victoria, BC (temporarily Toronto)
I just did a force protection shoot yesterday with the sig, great gun. Plan on getting a P226 eventually to play with on my own time... only problem is that waves don't make the most exciting targets.
But shooting for free is always a plus
But shooting for free is always a plus
Honestly, there is no need for a new pistol. The need is training and practice. My friend who was on my DP1 is overseas now. He said most people cheated on their test with the pistol. Their buddies in the butts just gave the pass score as the NCO came around and asked for the number of hits.
Why? Because they had no time to practice with the pistol. They were expected to master pistol shooting in one day; so much for work-up training. Had they not cheated, no 0ne would have completed that phase of training.
The Hi-Power is an excellent pistol. Everyone likes it but hate the old ####ed up mags they are given; they cause all the stoppages.
Why? Because they had no time to practice with the pistol. They were expected to master pistol shooting in one day; so much for work-up training. Had they not cheated, no 0ne would have completed that phase of training.
The Hi-Power is an excellent pistol. Everyone likes it but hate the old ####ed up mags they are given; they cause all the stoppages.
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
+2 and as for a new pistol, that woudl be nice, but instead, take the huge inventory of Hi-Powers they have, send them to Diemaco and have them install real sights and a decent thumb safety. Then start training, lots and lots of training.
just curious, but what range was your buddy shooting on? every CF pistol range I've ever been on has no butts, just a berm...
and I wouldn't say everyone likes the Browning at all... I hate the thing. my $.02
Sadly that would likely cost more per pistol than buying a Glock to replace it. I think the HP is a great pistol and better with the improvements mentioned, but spending a huge whack of money and still having an old pistol is likely not the best option. Now the cost of the Sig vs the upgrade might make it worthwhile. But a polymer pistol comes at almost half the weight of the HP and it may not seem like much, it would offset some other weight creep.
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
I agree, but I think we can all agree that they will not buy Glocks.
The two main drawbacks of the Glock from a military perspective is the lack of interchangeable grip and no manual safety. I believe Glock did add a safety for one customer order so that could be done. In a bidding process where weight, price, reliability, spare parts are key factors, Glock will be hard to beat, the cost of making each gun is so low that they will make it hard to beat. Now if the military waits a few years, SW with their M&P could give them a serious run for their money, SW will have paid off most of their development costs and resolved the majority of reliability issues and have a track record to sell, as they already have the interchangeable grips, then the manual safety will be the only issue. I could be wrong on the safety issue as the Sig does not have one, I suspect that will be a raging little war within the department when the time comes.
My guess for submissions would be
Glock G17 or G19
Sig 226 or the 250 possibly the 2022
Berretta PX4
SW M&P
FN FNP-9
HK P2000
Ruger SR9
My guess for submissions would be
Glock G17 or G19
Sig 226 or the 250 possibly the 2022
Berretta PX4
SW M&P
FN FNP-9
HK P2000
Ruger SR9
manual safeties are ####ing stupid.
they draw attention away from basic firearm handling safety and make the user focus on whether a switch is up or down, or forward or back..
keep you finger off the trigger and it won't fire.
#### manual safeties.
- Location
- BC, In a Van down by the river!
Exactly. But I agree with the above posts regarding training. The pistol training in the CF is sub standard. There's better training available to civilians. It is obviously not a high priority as not many soldiers have the opportunity to carry a pistol. What must change first is the mindset that a back up firearm is a good thing.
If the army decides it wants a pistol with a manual safety, then that's what they will get. I draw and return all my pistols as if they have a safety or decockers, that way I can transition from a M&P to my 226 to my 1911 without forgeting the operate the correct controls.
To be blunt the trigger safeties on the Glock and M&P would likely not be sufficent with the current level of training most soldiers get on pistols in the CF.
I agree that the level of pistol training in the CF is minimal. However, I don't think that is a reason to include a pistol safety. Safeties are counterproductive IMHO, if you draw the firearm you should be prepared to use it. I think it would be better to invest some time in proper training than to get a pistol with safety.
The drawback of the 1911 is that the safety has to be on when carrying cocked and loaded,
The advantage of striker fired pistols is the NO SAFETY required.
Just to be the "Devil's advocate":
would that not be reasonable grounds to go with a trigger safety? Say, a Glock with one of the heavier adrenaline-proof NYC police triggers? Normally, the pistol is used as a back up to the soldier's primary long gun. With the low amount of training the typical soldier gets each year on it, I would think a manual safety (especially if it ends up being a small one like the Browning's) may be missed or over looked in a panic moment. Again, just playing the devil's advocate on this one.
BTW: I have never had any problems with an issued Browning.
