Help a beginner - first pistol

I just went through similar personal angst last year but I did follow the advice of the wizened members of my club and bought a nice old High Standard in 22LR to get my feet wet but my interest was in action shooting and an opportunity at a black badge course came up so I quickly jumped to a 1911 in .45 ACP. I had only been shooting a couple months and only about 4 sessions with the .45 but already my marksmenship was miles ahead of some of the others in my class who had skipped the "beginner" .22LR calibre. I can sell my .22 any time for what I paid for it and its 40 years old, but I still shoot it a lot to work on technique.

I should add, I don't have alot of interest in .22 either, I shoot it because it lets me work on trigger problems.

Guns are cheap, bullets, except for the good ol .22, are expensive! Even reloaded ones!!

Learning how to shoot pistol well is like learning how to shoot Skeet or Trap well, it takes thousands and thousands of rounds. You can always sell a gun you don't like.

Pretty much any factory centre fire load has a strong kick to it and unless you have nerves of steel is quite likely to induce some sort of trigger reflex problem. When these guys are recomending reloading .38sp, they are talking about downloading way down from factory loads to the point where they don't kick a whole lot more than a .22 magnum pistol, which by the way is still a lot more than a .22 rifle.

The best advice I've seen so far was to try before you buy. Most of the folks at the clubs are more than happy to let you fire a few rounds. They will probably all suggest that you start with a used Ruger or High Standard .22LR and work with that for a little while. You will at least get a chance to learn just how much influence push, pull, flinch, wrist break, and poor wrist alignment will have on your shot. Thats much harder to do when you are dealing with a lot of recoil.

The older, well maintained .22LR autos like the Ruger and High Standard just never wear out and are a pretty safe investment, even if you sell it after a month, that few weeks shooting could be a few thousand rounds of cheap .22 vs. a few hundred rounds of expensive centre fire.

You can buy an old High Standard, shoot the heck out of it, and buy a nice S&W Model 19 for about $400 and shoot a few hundred rounds of factory .38, and get more shooting in for less overall cost and be a better shooter than if you tried shooting the thousands of rounds of reloaded .38.

So basically my advice is a to do both! Buy a nice used S&W Model 19 or similar for fun, check out Armco or Elwood, but get a High Standard .22LR for the majority of your practice.

Also, don't forget you have to buy the reloading equipment and learn how to reload...all stuff you will do eventually as you get into the sport but one thing at a time eh!

Martin
 
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There's no way those two guns are within 100.00 of each other unless someone is overcharging for the MP and/or undercharging for the Beretta. Don't get me wrong I like them both but there's a three hundred dollar difference more likely.

I think Redtory may have been refering to the Steyr M9 not the Beretta M9.
 
M9 695.00
M&P 9 625.00

As for over charging or undercharging, I think I have seen the M&P for 599.00 somewhere else, but that is not a huge difference.

That's a no-brainer, M9 all the way. At $625 for a M&P9 is way to much, can be had at $599 from Can-am with shipping in...
 
I think Redtory may have been refering to the Steyr M9 not the Beretta M9.

Here are the beretta prices at Williams Arms:

BERETTA
H4826 U22 NEOS 22LR, 2 MAGS, 4.5 BBL CODE# JU2S45B $350
H4837 M9 9MM, 2 MAGS, CODE J92M9AO $695
J6120 S687 SILVER PIGEON C 20X3X28, 5 CHOKES, SAME AS #J687145 BUT CASE HARDENED RECEIVER $2495
J6676 S686 WHITE ONYX 12X3X28, 5 CHOKES CODE#J6862J8 $1950
J6519 682 GOLD E SPORTING 12X3X32, 5 CHOKES, HARD LOCKING CASE CODE#J682E74 $3100
J6819 391 URIKA 2 COMBO 12x3X28 PLUS 12X3X24 RIFLED, KICKOFF, BLACK SYNTHETIC $1650
J6677 391 XTREMA 2 12x3.5X28, 5 CHOKES, BLACK SYN CODE#J391A28 $1350
J5851 391 XTREMA 2 12x3.5X28, 5 CHOKES, MAX4 CAMO, KICKOFF $1925
J6257 391URIKA 2 SPORTING 12x3X30, 5 CHOKES, XTRA WOOD CODE# J39TJ10 $1350
 
I've been learning so far on a 9 mm pistol but yeah, the cost is adding up fast.

The other day I got a chance to shoot a Smith&Wesson 22A pistol in .22LR. This is a budget priced semi auto pistol that works really nicely. It shot nice tight groupings (as tight as I can manage) and has just enough more kick to it than the Ruger MkII that I've also shot to better prepare you to the need to put the sights back on the target following the kick. I felt instantly that this would be a good practice gun that would help me with getting ready for IPSC next year. The Canadian price on the S&W 22A seems to be around $350. A hair more than some models of the Ruger but as I mentioned I think it more closely mimics how the larger centerfire guns respond than the Ruger which would be my other suggestion. The NEOS looks like a good deal but the angle of the grip puts me off. It's just too different from the center fire pistols and I would think this would affect the switching back and forth if you're using the .22 to prepare for match shooting other than .22 matches.

So if price is an object and you want to shoot lots to prepare for matches of some sort I'd suggest a S&W 22A along with some other center fire pistol that is eligable for IPSC, IDPA or whichever series you want to shoot in.

But if this is just for casual giggles then I'd suggest a 9mm for the lower ammo costs. Then shoot the ammo from a steel framed gun such as a CZ, a 1911 in 9mm, a baby Desert Eagle, Beretta 92 or some other steel framed gun to help control the kicking.

I was lucky enough to try about 8 various 9mm pistols and soon realized that for target shooting the heavier steel framed guns are far better than the light plastic frame guns like the M&P's, Glocks, Steyrs, etc. For carrying like law officers do this is a whole other issue and weight counts. For them the plastic framed guns are a far better option. But we don't carry, we target shoot. So for us a few extra ounces is actually a benifit.

As mentioned, if you reload then you have a LOT more options.

And while I've sung the praises of semi pistols so far I'll also echo the suggestions of going for a .357 revolver and then shoot the relatively cheap 38 spl other than for the odd mag round to finish the day with a big bang and laughs. For pure fun the revolvers actually have a lot of attractions over a semi. But really it's nice to have both.

EDIT- I see that Cabela Canada also has the Browning Buckmark for $373. This looks like it would be a nice shooter in its own right and the frame grip angles are similar to center fire guns as well so it could also serve as a nice big bore trainer if that is your wish.
 
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Sorry, $70.00 at William's Arms in Port Perry ON. They have a website but I think you have to google it, since they are not a sponsor.

M9 695.00
M&P 9 625.00

As for over charging or undercharging, I think I have seen the M&P for 599.00 somewhere else, but that is not a huge difference.

I definately believe you that there is no replacement for actual experience shooting the gun, but some guns may have known flaws that you may not experience from firing one a few times. For example, if they are known for jamming, or parts breaking, or if their customer service is awful etc. Which is where asking the "old pros" can come in handy! :)

I understand no one can really say, "yes, that is the gun for you." But they could say, "I don't care how it feels, stay the hell away from that one!"

That's a hell of a deal for an M9. 695.00 are you serious?!!! That's a really good deal. I would buy that one because they sure as heck aren't going to be as cheap as that very often if ever. (is that a refurb. price?) I stick to my quotes though.

To the second part of your response...I guess I should have been more specific as to not be corrected by some friggin' newbie. Stick to the major brands in Canada. In no particular order: Beretta, Smith/Wesson, Glock, CZ, Sig, even Tanfoglio. There are other great guns out there as well, but if you care about after sales support stick with these.

Thirdly, "redtory" bl#$ me.

M.A.
 
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Sorry, $70.00 at William's Arms in Port Perry ON. They have a website but I think you have to google it, since they are not a sponsor.

M9 695.00
M&P 9 625.00

As for over charging or undercharging, I think I have seen the M&P for 599.00 somewhere else, but that is not a huge difference.

I definately believe you that there is no replacement for actual experience shooting the gun, but some guns may have known flaws that you may not experience from firing one a few times. For example, if they are known for jamming, or parts breaking, or if their customer service is awful etc. Which is where asking the "old pros" can come in handy! :)

I understand no one can really say, "yes, that is the gun for you." But they could say, "I don't care how it feels, stay the hell away from that one!"



Dude, get your licence first. Shoot second and advice third.
 
Well, he's right to ask for advice on which to stay away from. For example if you do a search on Taurus I think you'll find a number of posts referring to the poor customer support provided by the importer here in Canada. I've seen two or three rather vehement such posts just in my short time on this board already.
 
So I am thinking about getting my first hand gun soon. I am a member of the local gun club already for shooting trap and rifle. Going to take the restricted firearms course next month.

So my questions are what medium-large caliber have relatively cheap bullets? Obviously .22 is going to be the cheapest, but I am interested in something with a bit more power like a 9mm or a .45 acp.

Secondly, what is a good make and model for a beginner? I would like something with a bit of history behind it like a m1911 or a S&W 29. But I need something that is reliable, long lasting, and good for target shooting since this may be the only handgun I ever get.

Thirdly, where is a good place to purchase handguns? I don't think there are many places locally (in NL). Might want to reply to this question with a private message.

GP you are on a right track with 1911 in 45ACP. You actually need two handguns - somethign in 22lr and the other one (9mm 38 special 45ACP - doesn't matter). I suggest the other one be like you originally wanted - 1911. Forget revolvers, those are archaic by nature, boring (for squares). You may as well buy black powder flintlock if you think buying revolver.

1911 built like tank classic, you learn on it and pretty much you know all other guns because they are just inadequate copy of 1911 anyway.
 
Stop the presses

Were up to 30 post and the guy has'nt even replied what he wants the gun for. Everyone's heres points are pretty valid but it is all based on your interpretation of what a good first pistol should be.
 
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A .22 might be the cheapest way to learn to shoot a handgun, but it is not the only way. If you are going to start handgun shooting, that is also a great way to break into handloading, if you are not a handloader already.

I think a revolver is a better learning tool than the pistol because you can handload the revolver very lightly, whereas the pistol requires enough power to work the slide, unless you manually work the slide for each shot. Caliber doesn't really matter, but smaller caliber bullets are cheaper than larger ones. This makes a .38/.357 attractive, but a .44 or .45 caliber gun doesn't cost that much more to shoot if you are loading light loads of Bullseye or a similar powder. To begin with you could even fire at close range targets with wax bullets driven by the primer. Once fired brass can be had at a very reasonable price, but even new handgun brass is only about half the cost of new rifle brass.

If you are not going to handload, I'm afraid that the .22 is your best choice. The choice between a rimfire revolver or pistol is a personal one, as both work reliably. The key to buying any gun though is to buy the best you can afford. If you can't afford new, there are plenty of good quality used guns to choose from at reduced prices.
 
Guys, please FULLY describe what gun you are talking about. The posts about the M9 are a good example. What is it? I had to think/guess, and am no stranger to pistols.

Remember this post is for a NEW SHOOTER, don't be so arrogant the you think everyone knows what you are talking about. This is the type of elitism that turns some people off shooting.

--Rant Off--

I also recommend to get a 22 SECOND after a centerfire. Say a 9mm as a first gun but then follow it up with a 22 for a lot of your practice.

The FUN in shooting is not just pulling the trigger, but also being able to hit what you are aiming at.
Shooting is not fun if you can't hit anything and missing the target with a bigger caliber is the same as missing with a 22.

The cost of SHOOTING is not in the gun, but ammo. Here is an example (less tax) of factory ammo and reloads (not including brass), with copper plated lead bullets.

1k rounds Factoy 9mm => $275
1k rounds Reloads 9mm => $110
1k rounds Factory 45 ACP => $420
1k rounds Reloads 45 ACP => $160
1,000 rounds .22 => $40

As far as guns, try out a few and see what you like and see which you can shoot the best, but here are a few of my suggestions. Baby Eagle or a CZ, S&W M&P 9, Glock 17 (although I personally don't like it), SIG. You wouldn't go wrong with any of them
 
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First handgun; forget ordinary revolvers and semi auto pistols, they are not good enough for you. You want to learn to shoot accurately, right? Everything else is just throwing ammo (and money) through the window. Frustration and disappointments included. In that respect, you want ACCURATE handgun because if you miss, you know that YOU missed, not handgun/ammo. As others pointed correctly, start with 22LR. Yes, there are some good S&W revolvers and 22 semiauto Rugers , but how do you know they are GOOD guns? If I am in your shoes, I'll get TC Contender in 22LR. You can get one for $400-450 in excellent shape. This single shot pistol is accurate as rifle. Nothing, except $2000 and above revolvers or semiauto pistols comes close to it. Second choice, although more pricey ($650 and up), is S&W M41 in 22LR. This is competition pistol, S&W really made them right. If you can afford them, FA revolvers in 22 or 357, or custom made 1911 Les Baer (or equivalent) would be the way to go. Another important info; Contender and revolvers have better trigger than semiauto pistols, no trigger take up. Once you learn to shoot, you can sell Contender or 41 and always get your money back. Just my opinion, good luck.
 
Onty,
I respectfully disagree.

Any quality made pistol or revolver will shoot more accurately than most people can hold. The average is probably on the order of 10 minutes and a very good one is about 5 minutes. 10 minute accuracy at 25 yards is 2.5" and at 10 yards is 1". The key here is to start up close and increase the range as one's ability improves. Shooting a precision single shot pistol teaches little to nothing about handgunning as these guns tend to have more in common with short rifles than with handguns. The best gun is the one with a short barrel (read short sight radius) because the short sight radius magnifies sighting error. To get good with one of these requires the shooter to master the basics of marksmanship to a fairly high degree and he will improve faster with all handguns once he has mastered the short barrelled guns.
 
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I'll chime in and recommend starting with a .22lr. Like others have mentioned in this thread: I have many handguns but my .22lr handguns always get used. FWIW, if you really want to start on centrefire then 9mm would be the most economical but look for a 9mm pistol that you can buy a .22lr kit for as well. Examples: a Glock 17 with an Advantage Arms conversion kit, a CZ 75/85 with a Kadet conversion kit, any 9mm 1911 with a Marvel .22lr conversion kit.......

Good luck and welcome to the 'game'.....
 
...This single shot pistol is accurate as rifle. Nothing, except $2000 and above revolvers or semiauto pistols comes close to it...

:runaway:Single shot pistol? That would be sure way to turn somebody off handguns altogether. Fun factor is a big thing for beginner and what you people recommend is single shots and revolvers, loaded light too. Remeber you being beginner? Everyone around you keep shooting SIGs and 1911's and you will be practicing with single shot 22?! No frigging way! Gimme that thing NOW!

1911 in 45ACP supplemented by inexpensive PISTOL in22lr would be the only way to go. I recommend Walther P22 as it is most cool-looking and straight shooting handgun ever made.:D

Lock up the thread there is nothing else left to say.
 
If you want a 22 semi auto, which is a great way to shoot cheaply and build your skills, I'd get either a Ruger semi-auto (never had one myself), S & W Model 41 semi-auto (never had one myself) or a High Standard (I'm on my second one). The skills are no different from centrefire, other than in rapid fire getting the sights back on target, or overcoming the crappy trigger and sights typical on military / police weapons.
 
since the original poster said he didn't want a 22, this whole side argument is POINTLESS- the next suggestion will be a set of scottish duelling pistols or something equally as farcical- who among us, first started out with a cooey single shot, and didn't UPGRADE as soon as possible( unless you were lucky enough to get your hands on dad's repeater) THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS is to have FUN and there is no fun doing surgical strikes at a piece of paper
 
since the original poster said he didn't want a 22, this whole side argument is POINTLESS- the next suggestion will be a set of scottish duelling pistols or something equally as farcical- who among us, first started out with a cooey single shot, and didn't UPGRADE as soon as possible( unless you were lucky enough to get your hands on dad's repeater) THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS is to have FUN and there is no fun doing surgical strikes at a piece of paper
:shotgun:Actually I can of like the Scottish duelling pistol idea...that would be a hoot! Fill em up with paint balls or wax....

The poor guy that asked the question must have run for the hills by now.
Reading between the lines he just wanted some assurance that it was alright to buy a cheap 9MM auto like a Glock and go bang. If you are still reading fella, it is, you're the one doing the shooting, just ignore the rest of us dip####s. Go out there and have fun and enjoy. Just be safe :wave:and be happy:dancingbanana:

For cripes sake folks...recomending single shot T/Cs and $3,000 Les Baers for a beginner....where are your brains!!!
 
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