Hornady 2009 products

sheephunter said:
If it's light guns you're after, I've got a 6.5 pound .416 Rigby for you.
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How much do you want for it?

Seriously though, if people like the 416 Ruger then no harm, no foul. If I needed a short to medium range 416 walking gun I'd give it a serious look.

Nowadays, I think anything that may draw more people to firearms, or get some old-timers re-energized, is fair game. I like seeing all kinds of firearm related products coming out, whether it's new cartirdges, or new scopes or what have you.
 
Curt said:
I have chronographed the factory Hornady 270 grain .375 Ruger ammo @ 2720 FPS. That is from the 20" barrel. Handloads with 260 grain Accubond go 2712. I don't own a 24" barreled .375H&H, but from what I find on the internet, the Ruger is a bit quicker.
As far as the weight, my rifle is 9lbs 6 oz, rifle, scope, mounts, rings, sling, a full magazine and one up the spout.
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Comparing factory ammo to factory ammo....only because there are so many handload variations.....you need 22-23 inches of barrel in a Ruger to equal what a 375H&H produces in a 24" barrel. Not sure what the advantage is other than it's new....

Totally agree with what you say Northman about new products, I just hate seeing people getting sucked in by all the marketing hype and figuring these new calibres can somehow defy the laws of physics. They can't. We saw this hype with the short mags and after the success and believing masses they had, all other manufacturers are jumping on the bandwagon. I think it's great and I'm taking my .30TC out tomorrow because it's so ballistically superior to the .308 and its recoil is half a .30-06 with the same ballistics plus the short action makes the gun weigh nothing and its far more accurate.....NOT! I'm taking it because it's new........not fooling myself by trying to justify my need for new and shiny things with practical explainations! :D
 
Isn't the idea of the Rigby to keep chamber pressure down in the heat of Africa? Load it up to Weatherby pressures, and it clobbers the Ruger. Just comparing apples to apples...
 
sheephunter said:
Why not just drill 375H&H and 416 Rigby holes in the chamber of a Ruger then?
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The 375 H&H won't fit into a standard Ruger Mdl 77 MK II action without modifying at least the bolt stop and possibly more. More modifications = More $$$, and that woudl defeat the purpose.

Ruger Magnum action rifles run about $2000 and aren't available in stainless.

Their idea was to sell new gun and ammo period. Not faulting them for that and I love new guns but let's not try to make it something it's not.....
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Of course they want to sell thier new guns and ammo, but they did offer a practical alternative. If the 375 H&H was introduced today, it woudl look like a 375 Ruger! Right or wrong, I bet nobody would buy a cartridge shaped like that today:p

More choices = More fun.:dancingbanana:

.next thing guys will be trying to tell me there are advantages to the .338 Federal over the .30-06.....:eek::p:D[
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Are you telling me that you havent' figured out the advantage yet?:runaway:
 
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I'm getting about the same velocities in my 20" barrel Ruger as I did in my and my buddies 24" H&H's...

Off the top of my head, my 260 Accubond load runs at 2755 fps. That is abotu what most manuals lists for H&H with 24" barrel.

If some H&H loads beat that, I am not concerned.:p
 
444shooter said:
Isn't the idea of the Rigby to keep chamber pressure down in the heat of Africa? Load it up to Weatherby pressures, and it clobbers the Ruger. Just comparing apples to apples...
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Now that wouldn't be good for marketing, would it?
 
sheephunter said:
So you're telling me that the Rugers deliver the same velocity with 4" less barrel. and that 4" of barrel weighs two pounds? Come on.

If it's light guns you're after, I've got a 6.5 pound .416 Rigby for you.
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4" of barrel doesn't weigh 2 lbs, but when you consider the shorter action (std. long action, not magnum), and the much heavier barrel contour used on Ruger's Safari Magnum .375 H&H(10.5 lbs empty), stock crossbolts, heavier stock etc, you just found all your weight difference.

I have no use for a .416 Rigby on this continent, especially not one that is too light to hold together under the recoil a .416 can generate. There are sensible minimum weights for a given level of recoil. Most rifles chambered for such a round are above this minimum weight, particularly factory rifles.
 
TimberPig said:
4" of barrel doesn't weigh 2 lbs, but when you consider the shorter action (std. long action, not magnum), and the much heavier barrel contour used on Ruger's Safari Magnum .375 H&H(10.5 lbs empty), stock crossbolts, heavier stock etc, you just found all your weight difference.

I have no use for a .416 Rigby on this continent, especially not one that is too light to hold together under the recoil a .416 can generate. There are sensible minimum weights for a given level of recoil. Most rifles chambered for such a round are above this minimum weight, particularly factory rifles.
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Holds together just fine and is a factory offering....even has a 24" barrel! Just not what I'd call a pleasure to shoot.

So are you saying that the .375 Ruger can somehow magically be shot from a lighter contructed gun...come on......no reason that a .375 Ruger and .375 H&H couldn't be shot from identical guns (chambered accordingly of course)....oh wait, they can. The slight action difference and 1-2" of barrel would amount to 8 ounces!
 
sheephunter said:
Holds together just fine and is a factory offering....even has a 24" barrel! Just not what I'd call a pleasure to shoot.

So are you saying that the .375 Ruger can somehow magically be shot from a lighter contructed gun...come on......no reason that a .375 Ruger and .375 H&H couldn't be shot from identical guns (chambered accordingly of course)....oh wait, they can. The slight action difference and 1-2" of barrel would amount to 8 ounces!
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No I'm saying that building a .375 like a harder kicking .416 or .458 makes for a heavier rifle than necessary for the recoil a .375 generates.

I hope you got the underweight .416 cheap, because you had to know that it was a little light for the recoil it can dish out.
 
I hope you got the underweight .416 cheap, because you had to know that it was a little light for the recoil it can dish out.
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Yup and yup!

No I'm saying that building a .375 like a harder kicking .416 or .458 makes for a heavier rifle than necessary for the recoil a .375 generates.
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We aren't talking sheep guns here......we are talking safari guns, built for specific conditions. There are loads of lighter weight .375 H&Hs out there if that's what floats your boat. I'm not anti Ruger .375 and if I didn't have an H&H I'd likely buy one but only because it was new........not because of marketing hype convincing me it did everything better than the H&H. Guess it goes to prove the marketing guys are worth what they pay them.........................
 
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TimberPig said:
No I'm saying that building a .375 like a harder kicking .416 or .458 makes for a heavier rifle than necessary for the recoil a .375 generates.
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That's one of the things I love about the ALaskan...It's not too heavy. My Brno 375 H&H was a pig. Perfect for 416's, 458's etc, but no need to have such a heavy rifle for a .375...

I hope the Macmialln stock on order will shave off a few ounces, too.:)
 
sheephunter said:
Yup and yup!



We aren't talking sheep guns here......we are talking safari guns, built for specific conditions. There are loads of lighter weight .375 H&Hs out there if that's what floats your boat. I'm not anti Ruger .375 and if I didn't have an H&H I'd likely buy one but only because it was new........not because of marketing hype convincing me it did everything better than the H&H. Guess it goes to prove the marketing guys are worth what they pay them.........................
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There is no doubt whatsoever that the main motivation for the new chamberings is to create excitement and boost sales. That is the whole name of the business. If they can get us all excited because they just introduced a new product that does the same thing as the one we already have, but we still have to have it, they make money.

Did we really need it? No, but we had to have it because it is new and shiny and exciting. Then we try to find the tiny little things that make it different in order to justify why we bought it when we already had another one that did the same thing.

In the case of the .375 Ruger, the main advantage is they realized that a .375 could be lighter than a .416 or .458, and built an affordable .375 that was better suited for how they are used here in North America, rather than for an African dangerous game rifle. The .416 really does not have any significant advantages, because building it lighter than a conventional .416 will simply lead to marginally tolerable recoil (as in the case of your lightweight).

A .416 Ruger will also have to be loaded carefully if it is to be used in African heat to avoid the problems associated with high pressure cartridges becoming overpressure when baked in the heat. The Rigby is deliberately under loaded relative to its case capacity to avoid this. The Remington (and the Ruger too) run at much higher pressures to match the larger case.
 
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Did anyone else notice the test barrel was 24" long?

I believe there is a need for the 416 Ruger as the only other factory choices are Rigby and Remmy which need a magnum action. The marketing helps though.

Pop a NECG peep on top of the stainless model and there is a great grizz gun for the wet coast.
 
Besides all the hoopla about the 416Ruger and 375Ruger vs H&H and Rigby's I think you gotta give Hornady a lot of credit for all the innovative stuff they bring out. Generally they're products are much more resonably priced too. I am glad to see we can finally get the Flex tips for handloading, and wouldn't mind trying the GMX either.
 
250 grain .451 leverevolution bullet + .454 Casull handload + 20" bbl puma = 200 yard deer rifle

200 grain .358 leverevolution bullet + .356 Win handload + 22" bbl Win94 = 300 yard deer rifle

It's going to be a fun winter of load development :)
 
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