I wasn't aware that I was trying to prove something, so what is the use of gathering "evidence". If I were doing expansion tests shooting them into dirt would be the last thing I'd do. Whether they expand or don't in dirt doesn't interest me. There are properly expanded bullets at the back berm as well as bent, and broken ones. They don't prove anything either, but I can give you pictures of a couple of them.
Flight 140 TTSX
- Thread starter chuck nelson
- Start date
I wasn't aware that I was trying to prove something, so what is the use of gathering "evidence". If I were doing expansion tests shooting them into dirt would be the last thing I'd do. Whether they expand or don't in dirt doesn't interest me. There are properly expanded bullets at the back berm as well as bent, and broken ones. They don't prove anything either, but I can give you pictures of a couple of them.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I don't know where you got this information. The MRX is no more a controlled expansion bullet than a TSX or TTSX. The MRX was built with a tungsten core to give it more weight and reduce it's overall lenght, it has nothing to do with expansion. That's my understanding anyway.
This is how Barnes describes the bullet in the new manual. I tend to agree with you in that what applies to the TTSX also applies to the MRX.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
The interesting thing about the hollow point of the TSX is that it is larger inside than at the nose. If you plug the nose, the fluid from the target will push the plug into the bottom of the hollow cavity and the bullet will expand normally.
A pistol bullet with a large cup shaped hollow point can be plugged and result in a reduction of expansion. The pistol bullet must have a larger diameter hollow point because it's velocity upon impact drops to subsonic very quickly.
A pistol bullet with a large cup shaped hollow point can be plugged and result in a reduction of expansion. The pistol bullet must have a larger diameter hollow point because it's velocity upon impact drops to subsonic very quickly.
Hmmm....Ok, let me try a different explanation....Ok, a human body is harder than water correct? Now, ever see someone cliff jump and not get their legs and arms tucked in correctly? See what happens to them? The blood vessels in their extremities burst or EXPAND when they hit the water and they turn red. Why is this? Because they are going really fast and even when they hit a very soft object like water it is resistance....It isn't fluid that makes a bullet (any bullet) expand...Its resistance at velocity. Its very simple physics...
If liquid was required barnes products wouldn't expand on critters like moose, which have very thick hide and hair, or bison...
Very simple test will prove this...Shoot any bullets you like into any dry medium you like, like 1/16th inch plate steel or even aluminum sheeting...Put a sheet of cardboard about 3 feet behind it...Pretty much every expanding bullet in the world will show that bullet upset has started before it hits the cardboard...Velocity....Impact....Bullet Upset....Expansion.
If liquid was required barnes products wouldn't expand on critters like moose, which have very thick hide and hair, or bison...
Very simple test will prove this...Shoot any bullets you like into any dry medium you like, like 1/16th inch plate steel or even aluminum sheeting...Put a sheet of cardboard about 3 feet behind it...Pretty much every expanding bullet in the world will show that bullet upset has started before it hits the cardboard...Velocity....Impact....Bullet Upset....Expansion.
Agreed.
The closest I've ever come to finding an unexpanded TSX was the 130gr TSX shot from my 30-30....The tips had just barely opened and started to peel back.
These were fired at MV of 2500fps into the 100 yard target and ended up in snow, and I am guess ing the snow didn't offer much resistence to expand the bullet, but eventually slowed it. Just a theory.
All the rest I've recovered from deer, dry and wet paper, wood and dry sand have expanded.
These were fired at MV of 2500fps into the 100 yard target and ended up in snow, and I am guess ing the snow didn't offer much resistence to expand the bullet, but eventually slowed it. Just a theory.
All the rest I've recovered from deer, dry and wet paper, wood and dry sand have expanded.
Sorry your thread got jacked Chuck...Nice buck.
I dig the pic with the Paradise Smile though, should hang that one too...
why did you take your camo off for the pic?
I never put any on. That's what I was wearing when I shot him.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
The following pictures may help you to understand.
Here we have a 270 gr XLC, a 300 gr X, a 380 gr Rhino all that have been recovered from close range firings into a dense aquious medium along with an unfired 380 gr Rhino for comparison.
Here we see a picture of a number of 380 gr Rhino bullets that have been recovered from an aquious medium offering very little resistance (a wet snow bank), notice that the bullets have shown a minor degree of expansion
Here is a 380 gr Rhino that has been recovered from a dry timber. Note that the bullet has bent from the force of the impact, but no expansion has occured.
The TSX has a hollow cavity that is larger than small entrance to the cavity. This prevents the bullet from being plugged as it passes through hair and skin. Once into the fluid bearing tissue of the game animal, the fluid is driven into the nose cavity and causes it to open it up very quickly. That is not to say that it won't open up if fired into sand, powdered concrete or ice. But these dry mediums are not present in game, fluid bearing tissue is, so it is fluid that causes the bullet to open. A bullet with a closed nose, such as traditional lead core bullets cannot have fluid enter the bullet to cause it to open, this is what makes the TSX and the mono-metal bullets from GS Custom special. Once the bullet is expanded, as long as it remains super-sonic, a shock wave is projected ahead of the bullet and no soft tissue or liquid touched it again until it has become trans-sonic and the shock wave is diminished.
Stop wondering
. Barnes bullets are devastating on deer! The 3 deer I have shot with my .270 using 130gr TSX bullets all dropped dead on the spot. I did a mercy killing on a wounded spiker last week from about 40 yards. Bullet entered just ahead of the shoulder, traveled 28" through the body & ended up just in front of the opposite hind leg. This is the only TSX bullet I have recovered.(Story & bullet pics to come later)George
RiverOtter
Member
- Location
- British Columbia
If fluid is needed for expansion, I have no idea how this deer died....
This is the entrance hole, directly behind the shoulder blade. Not a lot of fluid encountered before hand, although is was a rainy day......laughin'
Bullet was a 210 TSX (.338) and range was 198 yards. Knife blade is bang on 4", for reference.
This is the entrance hole, directly behind the shoulder blade. Not a lot of fluid encountered before hand, although is was a rainy day......laughin'
Bullet was a 210 TSX (.338) and range was 198 yards. Knife blade is bang on 4", for reference.
RiverOtter
Member
- Location
- British Columbia
Forgot to mention, exit hole was slightly larger, and the lungs ran out when I opened the diaphram.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
RO, all soft tissue contains fluid. I haven't butchered an animal yet that was dusty on the inside. If the lungs ran out, that would support that they were liquified by the passage of the bullet.
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RiverOtter
Member
- Location
- British Columbia
No doubt they were liquified, hence the pic of the entrance hole, before all that "liquid" was encountered. Not much liquid in hair and shoulder blade, but expansion was obvious, despite the "dryer" start.
As a side, I looked at your above X pics.
I assume that is what you're calling "UNEXPANDED"????
All I see are shanks, what do you think happened to the 4 petals??!!!??
As a side, I looked at your above X pics.
I assume that is what you're calling "UNEXPANDED"????
All I see are shanks, what do you think happened to the 4 petals??!!!??
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
The X bullets in the first picture lost their petals and as a result of impacting a dense fluid bearing material at high velocity. I concluded that the Rhino was the bullet I wanted when the chips were down due to its moderate impact velocity, large frontal area once fully expanded, and deep penetration despite the large frontal area. The wound volume was easily 4X that of the X's.
The unexpanded bullet is in the third picture, and this bullet shows no expansion whatsoever when impacting a dry medium. In all likelihood the bullet, due to its length, tried to swap ends as it passed through the target.
The unexpanded bullet is in the third picture, and this bullet shows no expansion whatsoever when impacting a dry medium. In all likelihood the bullet, due to its length, tried to swap ends as it passed through the target.
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