New AK on the way !
- Thread starter Fenix.NZ
- Start date
gunplumberr
Regular
Guys... we can have AK's in Canada...You just have to save up for a Valmet (and find one for sale)...
Yeah... it's total BS. Just because some Valmet Corp. CEO probably paid off whatever commite was in charge of writing the new gun law of 1994.
Interesting story: Over here in Montreal there used to be a store called "Russian Armouries" a few years back (in Dorval). The guy who owned it (or at least worked there) claimed to have been working at Saiga as an engineer and told me personally that Valmets are direct copies of Saiga rifles - to the point where ALL parts are exactly the same and interchangeable (Saiga is aimed at the hunter communities of Europe and US and is manufactured in semi-auto only, hence is NOT a converted auto).
Anywho, he had a HUGE load of Saigas awaiting clearence at the port in Halifax. The price was going to be about 350-400$ per new rifle - sling, extra mags and cleaning kit all in included the box. He actually paid for a lawsuit against the Canadian government in order to get the criminal code amended... since the Valmet was a direct copy of his Saigas! Unfortunately, he most likely forgot to pay off the right people and the store went out of business about a year and a half later.
So... why is Valmet legal? Does our government have any shares out of its' huge 4000$ price tag? (which is 10x more than a Saiga, by the way)... If that is so, then how about this: Why doesn't the federal government open its' own AK factory... and sell us THEIR rifles at 50x the profit. Hell, they can call them the " CAK-94 " (Canadian AK 1994 - to commemorate the wonderful new and totally senseless gun law!)
Whatever they do, we'll always get the shaft. I have a feeling Vz-58 types are the next ones to get "prohibited" for their sins!
Last edited:
A valmet is not at all an exact clone of a saiga, saigas are stamped riveted receivers while a valmet uses a milled receiver. Almost none of the parts are interchangeable. The valmet differs just enough from MK's design to not be considered a kalashnikov variant
Oh yeah, they were... I spoke with the guy on several occassions in person and even had one "reserved". They even mentionned it on their website and had a federal court case update section on the entire thing. Unfortunately, the updates never had any good news.
As far as Valmets being Finnish Saigas, I've heard that from more than one person... maybe the parts are made better on the Finnish models, but supposedly they're esentially the same semi-auto AK variants (maybe wiwth an exception of certain models, but not the M78 Valmet) . Either way, we're still getting the biggest shaft ever over here in Canuckland.
Last edited:
This is not what happened. Do a search here
It's actually the other way around. Saiga's are based on Valmet Hunters. MOST parts are NOT interchangeable. As mentioned bellow, ALL Valmet Hunters have milled receivers. I dont know what kind of stuff the guy from the store was smoking when he told you that.
"The government" doesnt sell Valmets for $4000. In fact, government doesnt get a penny most of the times when Valmets change hands in Canada. Valmets have been out of production for nearly 20 years, very few were imported. They are also the best, highest quality AK variants ever made. This explains the high price. And they are also expensive everywhere in the world, not just Canada.
obiwanbonjovi said:
It doesnt differ from the original AK design, and it IS considered an AK-47 variant by CFC.
Either way... I'm not contesting the fact that the Valmet is a high quality product, BUT the fact that it is the only one allowed... Why couldn't they allow a cheaper one instead? I'm positive there's a reason behind it, since the criminal code clearly stipulates an exception for those.
The exception being that Valmets are aimed at the hunter community (due to the fact that they're 'hunting' rifles) should also apply to Saigas, because they're essentially the same type of non-converted semi-auto only hunting rifles (like the Saiga .308, for example). Unless of course someone doesn't want Saiga or other such cheap & well built russian products on the market over here...
Anyway... enough ranting. We can talk all we want, soccer moms and their goofy yuppie husbands will still vote for spineless liberals who'll make it even worse for all of us... soon.
Last edited:
i imagine the only reason the code differs for valmets is because its a hunter rifle based on the AK platform. instead of a semi auto only AK like the saigas are
saigas use a different mag to an AK also.. but the conversion isnt too difficult .. therin lies the difference between an AK and a saiga
saigas use a different mag to an AK also.. but the conversion isnt too difficult .. therin lies the difference between an AK and a saiga
The exception being that Valmets are aimed at the hunter community (due to the fact that they're 'hunting' rifles) should also apply to Saigas, because they're essentially the same type of non-converted semi-auto only hunting rifles (like the Saiga .308, for example). Unless of course someone doesn't want Saiga or other such cheap & well built russian products on the market over here...
Anyway... enough ranting. We can talk all we want, soccer moms and their goofy yuppie husbands will still vote for spineless liberals who'll make it even worse for all of us... soon.
There are two common theories as to why M78 and M88 Valmets are non-restricted. One goes like this:
-When Valmet factory closed down, Canadian goverment purchased some rifles to supply the native hunters in the north. When they prohibited ALL AK-variants in 1995, those hunters pointed out to the government that they f*cked up, and those two models got de-prohibited.
Theory #2:
- Someone challanged the law and won, claiming that Valmets actually do have a sporting purpose (unlike other AK's, according to the gov.), and are suitable for hunting. I personally dont believe this theory, as it doesnt explain why M78's got de-prohibited. If it was so easy to challange the law and win, im sure many others would've done it by now.
On a side note, im personally very glad that it was the Valmets that got de-prohibited, and not some cheap AK-variant. Sure, they're expensive, but they're trully high quality rifles, not fitting the "cheap, beater rifle" stereotype commonly associated with AK's.
Of course it would be even better if ALL AK's got de-prohibited
Fenix.NZ said:
Valmet M78 is hardly a "hunter rifle". It's a semi-auto only light machine gun that Finnish army uses. M88, aka Valmet Hunter is pretty much the same as Saigas except for the milled receiver and walnut furniture. Neither of the rifles accept AK magazines (except for M78 chambered in 7.62x39)
the saigas actually arent that 'cheap' as far as construction goes.. ive had 2 saiga shotguns and have a molot vepr shotgun .. better finish and fit than my 870, jam less than my buddys 11-87 .
they are a nice firearm
they are a nice firearm
MapleSugar
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- On the loose from NIMH
So Fenix, how hard is it to emigrate from Canada to New Zealand?
If it helps, I love kiwi fruit!
If it helps, I love kiwi fruit!
So Fenix, how hard is it to emigrate from Canada to New Zealand?
If it helps, I love kiwi fruit!
Very easy we are both commonwealth.
