XCR Accuracy

[beltfed]

beltfed - I disagree. Peeps are just as accurate if not better than scopes. I'd prefer peeps that are matched with bull size for particular distance than scope of unknown quality.

now you are changing the equasion, I too would prefer irons to a craptastic scope, but that is not the discussion.

One day at the range I remember having quite a discussion "peeps vs scope" and after a bit of shooting we found there is no advantage to scope in target shooting. We were trading rifles too so there is no shooter's skills in equation.

There is no way you can discriminate on target with irons the way you can with a scope, especially at distance. If you are telling me you are as accurate with irons as you are with a decent scope at 200 yards +, you are smoking something good.

 

[Savage]

There is no way you can discriminate on target with irons the way you can with a scope, especially at distance. If you are telling me you are as accurate with irons as you are with a decent scope at 200 yards +, you are smoking something good.

Target shooters that get amazing scores with Iron sights.These sights are not a true iron sight but a hybrid these use what are called Dioptics there is a magnifaction process that occurs with these target sights .The magnifaction is low but it does sharpen the target up .
The only thing that has yet to mentioned is that most target shooters have an another advantage over the Scoped rifle crowd and that is Skill yes skill from years of experience of using the same type of sight .

 

[drvrage]

Despite all the endless debated on ammo, actions and sighting. The point is .5MOA consistently with an XCR (yeah right) should make this guy a hands down winner in Canadian shooting competitions. Why isn't he man loaded with trophies and touring the internationals. Why hasn't RobArms sponsored them?

BOULE-SHIAT!

 

[acrashb]

The point is .5MOA consistently with an XCR (yeah right) should make this guy a hands down winner in Canadian shooting competitions.

You're right about that. To do regular .5moa 5-shot groups with a semi, you need a custom gun, handloads, and good bench and rests. You could then get into the .3's from time to time, maybe occasionally better.

Not with a rack-grade XCR.

 

[Latman]

Consistently=holding together in a group.

Since I am not a competition target shooter nor am I using competition target gear, rifle and ammo. If I can get at least 50% of my 3 shot groups holding together 50% of the time at 1", on a good day. I'm calling that my group. The 10 shot groups where below 50%. I think that's fair using a stock rifle with factory ammo. If your expecting 90-100% from your average joe, get real. There's gonna be alot of disappointed shooters out there with their groups then. Iregardless I still think that's pretty good.

 

[Throttle_monkey1]

need pics. These guys are skeptical of anyone getting the groups you got, especially from an xcr, cuz most people here think it's a POS. I don't think it's a pos, but would need some pics of your groupings.

I've seen some pics of a 3/4" group from an xcr at 100 yards on arfcom

 

[sprint]

I don't think its a POS. But it is NOT a .5 moa sniper rifle. That's just funny...

 

[22lr]

There is no way you can discriminate on target with irons the way you can with a scope, especially at distance. If you are telling me you are as accurate with irons as you are with a decent scope at 200 yards +, you are smoking something good.

Beltfed - I thought you know better. Peep sights as metioned earlier are not what you would call iron sights, they are designed specifically to shoot black bullseye that match size of reticle.

The other thing is how you shoot. That target picture and fella with fancy rifle wearing funny jacket - those guys do not shoot from bench. I say again, without support (like 3p) peeps are as good as scope.

Magnification (again mentioned by another fella) is the effect of light coming to the eye through small hole. Cephalopod eyes designed around that fenomena, you do not need focus and there is slight magnification. By the way - this atachment from brownells uses the same principle:

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/productdetail.aspx?p=8767

 

[Northman999]

Okay, so with most everyone challenging Latman's post, how about everyone who owns or has used an XCR just let us know how YOU shoot with it and then the thread will be of some use. I'm seriously considering getting one of these rifles and I'd like to know what the typical XCR owner out there is getting.

 

[Latman]

Okay, so with most everyone challenging Latman's post, how about everyone who owns or has used an XCR just let us know how YOU shoot with it and then the thread will be of some use. I'm seriously considering getting one of these rifles and I'd like to know what the typical XCR owner out there is getting.

Mission accomplisted.

A soldier's duty never ends.

 

[toya]

Okay, so with most everyone challenging Latman's post, how about everyone who owns or has used an XCR just let us know how YOU shoot with it and then the thread will be of some use. I'm seriously considering getting one of these rifles and I'd like to know what the typical XCR owner out there is getting.

Pretty much the only neutral post in this thread so far!

I do not have an extensive selection of ammo and I haven't tried them all in my XCR but here are my results at 100m with what I got:

-American eagle 55gr FMJ-BT 1" to 1.5" (most were at the 1" range nice ammo lot)
-Winchester 55gr FMJ around 1.5" with the little that I've shot so far
-Remington UMC 55gr 1.5" to 2" most were in the 2" range really a blaster ammo

Still have to test Hornady TAP 60gr and PMC 55gr, I've read good results with the latter.

If you are really getting a XCR buy a small 1/4" wrench for the ejector bolts in case they get loose, just check them from time to time. Also, dry fire it a lot when new, this will smoothen the trigger. For the 300-400 first shots fire it with the gas system wide opened (setting #4) to be sure its broken in, then try it at a lower setting (like 1 or 2) until it cycles without jamming.

 

[beltfed]

Beltfed - I thought you know better. Peep sights as metioned earlier are not what you would call iron sights, they are designed specifically to shoot black bullseye that match size of reticle.

XCRs are coming with diopter sights? You are comparing apples to grapefruit.

The other thing is how you shoot. That target picture and fella with fancy rifle wearing funny jacket - those guys do not shoot from bench. I say again, without support (like 3p) peeps are as good as scope.

Again, if you read my posts, I am specifically calling on 'comparing apples to apples' in the equasion...There is absolutely no question in my mind a TR guy could walk circles around the average hobby shooter with a scoped rifle, regardless of equipment - even at 800m.
However, if you cloaned that target shooter, outfitted him with the exact same equipment, ammo, shooting jacket, etc. and you had irons or (diopter for that matter) on one gun, and a good quality scope on the other-there is very little doubt in my mind his scores would fair better with the scope (assuming of course he didn't have technical difficulties with using a scope).

 

[Throttle_monkey1]

northman- I have an xcr, and use it for gophers. It works great for that. Like I said, I can't shoot groups worth #### with any gun, so I have no data to help you out.

 

[kombayotch]

Consistently=holding together in a group.

Since I am not a competition target shooter nor am I using competition target gear, rifle and ammo. If I can get at least 50% of my 3 shot groups holding together 50% of the time at 1", on a good day. I'm calling that my group. The 10 shot groups where below 50%. I think that's fair using a stock rifle with factory ammo. If your expecting 90-100% from your average joe, get real. There's gonna be alot of disappointed shooters out there with their groups then. Iregardless I still think that's pretty good.

Consistently = repeatable

It has nothing to do with whether you're joe average or a trained sniper.

Unless your shooting a highly accurate benchrest rifle, 3 round groups are meaningless. Even with my custom built G.A. Precision bolt rifle, 3 round groups are not consistently repeatable. It requires 5 rounds for all the groups to be within 20% of each other in size, all the time. With a factory, non-match semi-auto it should be at least 10 rounds in order to quantify any kind of accuracy. The army uses 30 shot groups to quantify the accuracy of this type of gun.

Do I believe you get a fair number of 0.5" 3 shot groups... sure. But, as you said, you don't get those consistently. And that's the point, those groups are a chance occurrence, not an indication of the accuracy potential of your rifle. It isn't because you're an average joe that you don't get those groups 100% of the time, its because you aren't firing enough shots to show a consistent shot pattern.

Try firing a few 10 shot groups. You'll probably find that you do get roughly the same sized groups 90-100% of the time. 1.5-2" groups is superb for this kind of gun, if you're getting that you should be very happy.

 

[acrashb]

Consistently = repeatable
[...]
at least 10 rounds in order to quantify any kind of accuracy.

Exactly. Here's an article that sums it up nicely: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=279218&page=1

 

[Latman]

Consistently = repeatable

It has nothing to do with whether you're joe average or a trained sniper.

Unless your shooting a highly accurate benchrest rifle, 3 round groups are meaningless. Even with my custom built G.A. Precision bolt rifle, 3 round groups are not consistently repeatable. It requires 5 rounds for all the groups to be within 20% of each other in size, all the time. With a factory, non-match semi-auto it should be at least 10 rounds in order to quantify any kind of accuracy. The army uses 30 shot groups to quantify the accuracy of this type of gun.

Do I believe you get a fair number of 0.5" 3 shot groups... sure. But, as you said, you don't get those consistently. And that's the point, those groups are a chance occurrence, not an indication of the accuracy potential of your rifle. It isn't because you're an average joe that you don't get those groups 100% of the time, its because you aren't firing enough shots to show a consistent shot pattern.

Try firing a few 10 shot groups. You'll probably find that you do get roughly the same sized groups 90-100% of the time. 1.5-2" groups is superb for this kind of gun, if you're getting that you should be very happy.

+++++Excellent. I'll never tell.

 

[Satain]

Exactly. Here's an article that sums it up nicely: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=279218&page=1

OMG!!!
All I got to say after reading this posting is...
Am I the hero???
Or atleast can I be an Internet Comando???\
LoL!

 

[acrashb]

can I be an Internet Comando???

For your collection:

 

[acrashb]

Here's one more for you: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu8.htm

 

[drvrage]

I'm going back to the range this weekend with My XCR, a 3-7 X 32mm leupold vx1 and some shooting bags. The XCR is stock and well worn in. I'll report the very best I can do with this rifle with Win white box 55gr FMJ and PMC 62 gr SS109 and post pics of the results.