A lot of that sounds good in theory but the truth is, 3 1/2" 12 gauge shells offer nearly indentical ballistics and pattern to the 10 guage. There is a lot of nostagia with the 10 gauge but sadly, the 3.5" 12 gauge has made it obsolete.
who shoots 3.5'' shells?
- Thread starter bigredchev
- Start date
A lot of that sounds good in theory but the truth is, 3 1/2" 12 gauge shells offer nearly indentical ballistics and pattern to the 10 guage. There is a lot of nostagia with the 10 gauge but sadly, the 3.5" 12 gauge has made it obsolete.
Last edited:
If one has a 10 gauge in an action that does not depend on recoil, why not cut the hull back and load to lighter specs? Many who own the older 10 gauges with the shorter chamber length, do just that. Many years back, I once shot an old spanish 10 3 1/2 inch loaded with the lighter loads and it was not all that bad.
- Location
- Thunder Bay ON Canada
Yes and no. For instance did you know that the ten gauge can be loaded with THREE OUNCES of lead, and still stay 3000 psi below a 12 gauge 3.5 inch shooting 2 3/4 ounces at about the same velocity? Seriously, a 3 ounce slug! (or birdshot if you want, not that lead shot is legal anymore) We can't compare the a 12 gauge 3 oz slug, because you can't safely fit one in the case. The problem is...you'll never see it on the shelf, the demand hasn't been deemed high enough big name factories to market it.
But, I'm a handloader and chronograph, and pattern board type of guy, not a hunter, so I do rely on both theory and graphs, and pressure curves, and I do end up with strange and wonderful loads you aren't going to get off the shelf.
The marketing line is, "the ballistics of the 3.5 are identical", but they always compare apples and oranges to get those numbers.
The load compared that I've seen always a ten gauge 3.5", running light and fluffy steel shot, at 10,500 psi, to a twelve gauge 3.5" running hevi-shot, or alloy shot, at 14,000+ psi. When you do that, the external ballistic numbers are almost identical
There was also a very influential Randy Wakeman article that compared the factory selection of 10 gauge (7 or 8 loads at that time) with 12 gauge (78 or so loads) but most of the selection he compared wasn't 3.5 inchers in the 12 gauge.
But yes, the factory hasn't been our friend, and seems determined to let the 10 ga languish. If all you ever buy is the loads that you can get at Wal-Mart, you might be better served with a 12 gauge 3 1/2 inch.
It's not nostalgia that fuels me and a bunch of others to keep playing with the ten gauge, it's the possibility for interesting things. The biggest problem with the ten gauge today is SAAMI. SAAMI is a standards organization. When they blew out the ten gauge to 3.5 inches no one bothered asking for a pressure increase. Steel shot is so light, what would be the point? Then they came up with all these cools alloys which were as heavy as lead, and when they blew out the 12 gauge case to 3.5 inches, they knew the needed more oomph, and asked for and were allowed a substantial pressure increase.
This doesn't matter to handloaders, because few of them are so foolish as to use the weakest factory barrel allowed under SAAMI specs, and ......yaddda, yadda, yadda, yadda......
Those who have ears to hear, let them hear....my GF wants me to take her to lunch.
I am using a new 870 Supermag for ducks and geese this year and I use 3.5" loads exclusively. My take on the whole thing is this; with steel shot being marginal on tough waterfowl, I use the fastest load avail. with a decent payload and the 3.5" provides that, I don't find the recoil as bad as the old lead 3" shells we used to use for geese. Pls. note, I'm not stuck on this, as I still use 2 1/2" Black Powder loads with bismuth for ducks and geese when i can get it.
I got a gold ten last season this year i got into reloaden some of my 12's are goin for sale its like night an day the differance.I use a hevi shot 1 3/4 ounce load a steel 1 1/2 ounce load doin 1550 an some of the boys here use a 1 3/8 ounce steel load doin over 1700'sec .This is were the 10 shines big killer loads that can move with a short shot string puttin more pellets on target.I use mostley bb but any of those loads can run 2,4 shot for ducks.There not a walk thru the woods gun there a carry it to the blind gun lol.As far as kick goes i don't feel it when i'm pullin the trigger actually my 935 kicks harder with kent fast steel.
If that is your case, imagine what an 8 gauge could do? Did you see the tough cowboy dude in that new western movie, Appaloosa? Imagine the injustice of letting the 8 gauge go, because the industry pushed all those other whimpey numbers?
- Location
- Thunder Bay ON Canada
I haven't seen appaloosa, but I have wondered a great deal about the 8 gauge. You can still get components, I've seen them for sale when buying other obscure shotgun components. I'd want to rebarrel any gun I used before getting into load development.
I'm not into reinventing the 12 gauge from hell, but I think you could do some nice work with a 2 1/2 or 3 inch 8 gauge.
Hell; can you imagine a pump gun chambered in 8 gauge, 2 inch shells, each throwing a lovely even buffered load of as little as 1oz of birdshot?
Anyway, I don't think 8 gauge would enjoy a resurgence here, but of course, it's still reasonably popular in Britain and you can get new factory loaded non-toxic shot loads for it too.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=LJS8PBqdF8g
Last edited:
But here in Alberta, its against the law to hunt with such a firearm
Last edited:
General Regulations Page 18
It is unlawful to
5. set out, use or employ any of the following items for the purpose of hunting any wildlife:
. yadda,
.yadda,
.yadda,
.a shotgun of a gauge greater than 10,
Mr. Ironsights,
When you become a real lawyer, you could challenge that and have it fixed?
It is unlawful to
5. set out, use or employ any of the following items for the purpose of hunting any wildlife:
. yadda,
.yadda,
.yadda,
.a shotgun of a gauge greater than 10,
Mr. Ironsights,
When you become a real lawyer, you could challenge that and have it fixed?
- Location
- Thunder Bay ON Canada
Your signature:
Less powder, more lead, shoots far, kills dead.
More powder, less lead, kicks hard, wide spread.
Then the killing part of your signature, applies to other than animals? If so the one oz of small shot in your dream gun only applies to short range and the shoots far part is out of wack as well? Forked tongue!
Lawyer material
BTW, less lead does not kick as hard as more lead.
More lead does not make the shot go farther, but it does make a denser pattern. More powder does make the shot go farther.
When you finish law school you will find that the devil is in the details
We really need another lawyer who don't shoot animals. WTF? What was the point of your 8 gauge duck killer video? What's the point of your babble about the demise of the 10 gauge by the evil 12 gauge 3 1/2 conspiracy? Who are you saving it for? The one oz. small shot paper shooters?
- Location
- Thunder Bay ON Canada
OMG, I'm under attack again!
___________________________ 
I like my tag line. It rhymes. That's all.
I don't shoot animals because I'm a paraplegic, and the local terrain isn't suited for chairs. I'll probably hunt some day when I'm rich and can afford to own one of those cool tank chairs. Seriously; I'd go on safari if I could foot the bill.
I love to shoot, boom, boom, boom. Huge monster boomsticks, with or without any "practical" application for the fun of it all. Little popsticks, strange loads like pistol powder in rifle cases...blah, blah, blah...
I didn't babble about the ten gauge. I spoke my mind, and am just as entitled to rant as any other dancing bannana. I own both ten and twelve and reload both, and test both on the patterning board, and crush clays with both and feel entitled to my opinion despite your objections. There are far too many fools on this board offering opinions on guns they don't own, or calibers they don't shoot for me to feel otherwise.
That wasn't a "duck" video for me. It was shotgun ####. That lockwork was LUSCIOUS!!!
P.S. I have a question Covey. Was that guy shooting ducks? Are ducks seafaring creatures?
___________________________ I like my tag line. It rhymes. That's all.
I don't shoot animals because I'm a paraplegic, and the local terrain isn't suited for chairs. I'll probably hunt some day when I'm rich and can afford to own one of those cool tank chairs. Seriously; I'd go on safari if I could foot the bill.
I love to shoot, boom, boom, boom. Huge monster boomsticks, with or without any "practical" application for the fun of it all. Little popsticks, strange loads like pistol powder in rifle cases...blah, blah, blah...
I didn't babble about the ten gauge. I spoke my mind, and am just as entitled to rant as any other dancing bannana. I own both ten and twelve and reload both, and test both on the patterning board, and crush clays with both and feel entitled to my opinion despite your objections. There are far too many fools on this board offering opinions on guns they don't own, or calibers they don't shoot for me to feel otherwise.
That wasn't a "duck" video for me. It was shotgun ####. That lockwork was LUSCIOUS!!!
P.S. I have a question Covey. Was that guy shooting ducks? Are ducks seafaring creatures?
Last edited:
OMG, I'm under attack again!
Do not flatter yourself. I just argued with some of your dumb assed comments, especially since you described yourself as a wannabe lawyer.
Excuses! Excuses! If you really would like to be a hunter, be a hunter!
How the heck do I know what he was shooting at? The quality of the video on my computor was so poor that I could not tell. After the dude took 3 shots and sent his dog and I did not see the dog come back I quit watching.
There are sea ducks or ducks that frequent the sea and some land lubber ducks end up on the sea? Are there seafaring ducks or creatures? Hard to tell with these? My Websters defines seafaring as mariner's calling. Hard to tell who or what called these ducks or creatures?
- Location
- Thunder Bay ON Canada
I don't know why I didn't notice before that Covey is a talker with mass posts, but doesn't buy any guns.
You really are a big mouth, covey. I'm into shotguns and and firearms issues, and don't mind honest debate, even vociferous debate, but you're not interested in debate, you're trolling.
You've crossed the line from being argumentitive to stupid and ignorant, for the sake of being stupid and ignorant, and I'm done with you.
You really are a big mouth, covey. I'm into shotguns and and firearms issues, and don't mind honest debate, even vociferous debate, but you're not interested in debate, you're trolling.
You've crossed the line from being argumentitive to stupid and ignorant, for the sake of being stupid and ignorant, and I'm done with you.
Last edited:
